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moviemaniac

Censoring Les Miz

I would like anyone who has done or seen a production of Les Miserables where something was censored to talk about what was censored, how it was censored, and whether or not they got permission to censor it. Here is a clip of a production at my old high school: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2aulmbaInU&feature=channel_page
Believe it or not, they actually got permission for all their censoring choices. I think it's safe to say that the people in this infamous clip did not get permission: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjTjTCeHXi8
lesmisloony

I was really hoping this thread would be about Blacklick Valley.
MlleTholomyès

Blacklick Valley is by far my favourite staging ever.
l'ivrogne transfiguré

That second clip is Blacklick Valley
Eppie-Sue

*sings*
Lovely people, waiting for a bite
Waiting for the customers
Who only come at night
Lovely people, ready for the call
Standing up or lying down
Or any way at all...
Bargain prices up against the wall!


I love this way too much. (and the Bamatabois scene just wins at life.)
Elbow

I can't work out what's worse. Blacklick Valley or... or... the other infamous one - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1773013349632521966&q=Les+Miserables&hl=en#

Having just listening to Javert's suicide, with him just shouting the words and it being punctuated by a bit of "Stars" every other line, I think I'll go for the second one.

And your school's Les Mis sounds like one of the best school editions I've ever heard, moviemaniac!
MlleTholomyès

Ahh, the interpretive dance one. Because everyone knows: a suicide number is perfectly accompanied by a "creative" dance routine.
moviemaniac

Censoring Les Miz

Don't forget people, I didn't start this thread to talk about bad versions of Les Miz. I started it for people to talk about censored productions of Les Miz. Could we please get back to the topic? Maybe someone could perhaps talk about a production they've been in that censored something.
The Very Angry Woman

Re: Censoring Les Miz

moviemaniac wrote:
Don't forget people, I didn't start this thread to talk about bad versions of Les Miz. I started it for people to talk about censored productions of Les Miz.


What's the difference?
Elbow

Re: Censoring Les Miz

moviemaniac wrote:
Don't forget people, I didn't start this thread to talk about bad versions of Les Miz. I started it for people to talk about censored productions of Les Miz. Could we please get back to the topic? Maybe someone could perhaps talk about a production they've been in that censored something.


Once, I heard someone say "man" instead of "bastard", this is an example of censoring.

...Happy?
mezzo_soprano

Well the play version I am doing doesnt have Fantine becoming a whore, but it isn't cencored out. Its just not there.
Eppie-Sue

mezzo_soprano wrote:
it isn't cencored out. Its just not there.

... that's kind-of how I would describe censoring...
Please,Hello

Re: Censoring Les Miz

moviemaniac wrote:
Don't forget people, I didn't start this thread to talk about bad versions of Les Miz. I started it for people to talk about censored productions of Les Miz. Could we please get back to the topic? Maybe someone could perhaps talk about a production they've been in that censored something.


Cencored, I'd rather die
HannahM

Re: Censoring Les Miz

moviemaniac wrote:
Don't forget people, I didn't start this thread to talk about bad versions of Les Miz. I started it for people to talk about censored productions of Les Miz. Could we please get back to the topic? Maybe someone could perhaps talk about a production they've been in that censored something.

I'm guessing from this post that you aren't opposed to censorship then...
moviemaniac

Censoring in Les Miz

Hey mezzo_soprano, if Fantine wasn't a whore in your version, what did you guys do? Did you invent a new situation in which Fantine got arrested? Did you guys have to get special permission from MTI to do that? Please, give me more details.
l'ivrogne transfiguré

Quote:

Quote:
it isn't cencored out. Its just not there.


... that's kind-of how I would describe censoring...


I think she means it was never in the script. Censoring is removing something from a script which may be considered objectionable.

ETA: And remember this isn't the musical she's talking about, it's a different play version...
Eppie-Sue

Ah yes, of course. d'oh! But still, seeing as it's based on Les Misérables and it's a school production, if I'm not mistaken, the reasons why it's never been in the script are quite obvious, aren't they?!

I think censoring - and leaving things out - is upsetting. Why would you do that? If kids are too young to be introduced to the topic of prostitution, they also shouldn't have to deal with, um, I don't know. Soldiers shooting a boy. Dozens of revolutionaries being killed. A policeman commiting suicide. That kind of stuff.
l'ivrogne transfiguré

Eppie-Sue wrote:
I think censoring - and leaving things out - is upsetting. Why would you do that? If kids are too young to be introduced to the topic of prostitution, they also shouldn't have to deal with, um, I don't know. Soldiers shooting a boy. Dozens of revolutionaries being killed. A policeman commiting suicide. That kind of stuff.


Oh, I agree totally. But today's open-minded society still seems incapable of talking about anything vaguely sexual, when STDs and teen pregnancies and such are one of the biggest problems... seems a bit silly to me. What I think makes least sense, though, is some of the choices they make in censoring language, e.g. references to God and Jesus as swear words, because those kids who are being carefully protected from them on stage, are bound to hear them all around them every day anyway.
moviemaniac

Censoring Les Miz

I'm sorry to be rude, but my intention was not to have this be a general censorship discussion thread. My intention was to find out about specific Les Miz censorship stories. So please only make posts on this thread if you have been in or have seen a production of the the musical Les Miserables in which something was censored or cut out.
Elbow

Calm down dear.
marlalp

Re: Censoring Les Miz

moviemaniac wrote:
I'm sorry to be rude, but my intention was not to have this be a general censorship discussion thread. My intention was to find out about specific Les Miz censorship stories. So please only make posts on this thread if you have been in or have seen a production of the the musical Les Miserables in which something was censored or cut out.


Please remember that this is a public forum, which you are using but do not own (which includes this thread), and you do not really have the right to dictate what people may or may not discuss here. The posts made so far are not grossly off topic: the discussion of censorship in general is not unrelated to your original topic of censorship specifically in Les Misérables.

On the other hand, you are free to steer the discussion by introducing your own thoughts or questions regarding censorship in LM.
MlleTholomyès

Well, with a title "censoring Les Miz", of course people are going to post about censored productions; what they think of it. But then again, if you just asked "Okay everyone, have you any experience in censored productions?"
moviemaniac

Censoring Les Miz

I'm sorry. It's just that at one point, they started getting off topic by talking about censorship in general rather than censorship in Les Miz. And when it comes to Les Miz, people haven't talked about the specifics yet. I want to know which parts are most commonly censored and the different methods in which people censored them. For example, there are a lot of things that could be censored in "Master of the House." Some people are offended when God and Jesus' names are taken in vain as they are in "Master of the House" and I want to know about the specific phrases people used to replace them. I'm not wondering about the s-word so much, because most people probably just said twit or git. I'm also wondering how many people censored "raise it up the master's a** and if so, how. Those specific details are the kind of things I want you guys to talk about.
MlleTholomyès

"I want"? You mean you wish we would talk about. "Want" sounds very petty and demeaning, and really, people probably aren't going to if you're going to be condescending.
The Very Angry Woman

Re: Censoring Les Miz

moviemaniac wrote:
Those specific details are the kind of things I want you guys to talk about.


Sorry, kid. Dictating the direction of a thread is like trying to extract egg from a cake. It won't happen. Let it go.
mezzo_soprano

What I mean by my play not being censored, is my school didnt take the whore scene out. The script goes from Fantine being fired, to her coming onstage having sold her hair and Bamatabois tormenting her. No whoring (dammit). But it flows so if you dont know the story, you have no idea she was supposed to be a whore.
miraclemile

The lyric sheet we got today, for our SE, has the third verse of ATEOTD (another day dawning... etc) printed with the ending 'And it's us who'll have to pay' instead of 'And there's gonna be hell to pay' Considering nothing else, as far as I'm aware, is censored, I've no idea what's going on here, and whether it's just a misprint, where they've accidentally used that line from 'she'll be nothing but trouble' or if it's just another weird SE-ism? Anyone know if that usually happens in the SE, or is our lyric sheet is just wrong...? Mr. Green
aworthyboyishe

Re: Censoring Les Miz

moviemaniac wrote:
I'm sorry. It's just that at one point, they started getting off topic by talking about censorship in general rather than censorship in Les Miz. And when it comes to Les Miz, people haven't talked about the specifics yet. I want to know which parts are most commonly censored and the different methods in which people censored them. For example, there are a lot of things that could be censored in "Master of the House." Some people are offended when God and Jesus' names are taken in vain as they are in "Master of the House" and I want to know about the specific phrases people used to replace them. I'm not wondering about the s-word so much, because most people probably just said twit or git. I'm also wondering how many people censored "raise it up the master's a** and if so, how. Those specific details are the kind of things I want you guys to talk about.


You haven't been around these boards much, have you?

However, if things get too off-topic, generally people will start a new thread.

But for the most part, you just gotta wait for it to come back to what you want.
XD
l'ivrogne transfiguré

moviemaniac wrote:
I'm sorry. It's just that at one point, they started getting off topic by talking about censorship in general rather than censorship in Les Miz. And when it comes to Les Miz, people haven't talked about the specifics yet. I want to know which parts are most commonly censored and the different methods in which people censored them. For example, there are a lot of things that could be censored in "Master of the House." Some people are offended when God and Jesus' names are taken in vain as they are in "Master of the House" and I want to know about the specific phrases people used to replace them. I'm not wondering about the s-word so much, because most people probably just said twit or git. I'm also wondering how many people censored "raise it up the master's a** and if so, how. Those specific details are the kind of things I want you guys to talk about.


I can understand your frustration if you are looking for particular information, but you can't expect to be able to direct a thread like that. It is after all a conversation - and I would hope you don't tell your friends what to talk about like that. People aren't going to talk about what they're not interested in - let them talk about what they want, provided that is connected to the topic, and within that you may find what you are looking for. Trying to limit what people talk about seems presumptuous and isn't going to do you any favours.
Eppie-Sue

Re: Censoring Les Miz

moviemaniac wrote:
I'm sorry. It's just that at one point, they started getting off topic by talking about censorship in general rather than censorship in Les Miz.


We only talked about censorship in Les Mis. And this thread is one of the most on-topic in the entire Les Misérables forums. Have you seen the London Cast Change thread?! xD

And we're getting there. We have been talking about Lovely Ladies censorship, which definitely is among the most common. I suppose. I can't give you any hard facts, though, sorry.
christinadaae

I love that I live in Illinois; meaning liberal school system.
We censored nothing, and when we did RENT my junior year, I was actually encouraged to add the cuss words back in.

It depends on the school, because it depends on your audience. If people won't come see your show when you "say the lord's name in vain", then don't freaking do it. You want people to come see your show.
But when it actually changes the meaning (a-la-Blacklick), then we have a different problem.

Oh, and I think "its us who'll have to pay" and 'gonna be hell to pay" are two different lines.
Quique

Usually when people have something to share, they will. If not, they'll talk about something related. Common sense.

Seems like you think we all have answers to your question but simply refuse to help and have to be reminded to stay on topic because we are all that impulsive and inattentive. Ha.
Alexia Dark

I just got the script for my production... and they have CUT Lovely Ladies! I am so incredibly mad right now! It takes away... everything!

"Hi. I got fired, attack some random guy while I have the flu or something, and then I go to the hospital and die."

So much less tragic.
mezzo_soprano

Alexia Dark wrote:
I just got the script for my production... and they have CUT Lovely Ladies! I am so incredibly mad right now! It takes away... everything!

"Hi. I got fired, attack some random guy while I have the flu or something, and then I go to the hospital and die."

So much less tragic.



I am sorry. At least my production flows without it. Thats just bad
lesmisloony

Though if the whore thing is removed maybe Fantine's sickness will be a little more apparent? It bothers me that so many times actresses forget about being sick and will just suddenly be dying after the Bamatabois thing.
Alexia Dark

I am too disappointed to care about whether or not it puts more 'focus' on her sickness... if anything, that scene provides more opportunity to see the progression from overworked factory girl to an exhausted, restless woman suffering from TB. And I will not 'forget' to include these facts.
HannahM

miraclemile wrote:
The lyric sheet we got today, for our SE, has the third verse of ATEOTD (another day dawning... etc) printed with the ending 'And it's us who'll have to pay' instead of 'And there's gonna be hell to pay' Considering nothing else, as far as I'm aware, is censored, I've no idea what's going on here, and whether it's just a misprint, where they've accidentally used that line from 'she'll be nothing but trouble' or if it's just another weird SE-ism? Anyone know if that usually happens in the SE, or is our lyric sheet is just wrong...? Mr. Green

I don't know about the SE but my choir used to sing ATEOTD and we had this same change. I'm not sure where they got it from but I don't think it was a misprint. I thought that "It's us who'll have to pay" was the real lyric for years...
Quique

But hasn't time elapsed? I mean, one moment we see Fantine downing the contents of that shot glass. Then we see her in full streetwalker get-up, already aggressively soliciting costumers, the next. I doubt the 5 minute time frame in which she goes from factory worker to getting arrested and becoming ill is supposed to be taken literally. Razz
Alexia Dark

Quique wrote:
But hasn't time elapsed? I mean, one moment we see Fantine downing the contents of that shot glass. Then we see her in full streetwalker get-up, already aggressively soliciting costumers, the next. I doubt the 5 minute time frame in which she goes from factory worker to getting arrested and becoming ill is supposed to be taken literally. Razz


Haha, obviously :p.

But still, Fantine is hardly Fantine to me if she doesn't sacrifice every last shred of dignity for the sake of Cosette's safety.
SomeoneLikeYou

Eppie-Sue wrote:
The Bamatabois scene just wins at life.


How so? Anyway...

Cutting Fantine's prostitution ring is inexcusable. It's a key plot point that shows just how desperate she has become. The fact that she was willing to degrade herself for Cosette, only to wind up dying from consumption, makes her death scene even more heartbreaking. Without that element, the character doesn't have nearly as much punch, so to speak.
moviemaniac

Censorship in Les Miz

I'm surprised by how many "Lovely Ladies" censorship comments there are. I understand why people would want to censor that scene, but it seems like it would be hard to cut out. Doesn't anyone have any "Master of the House" censorship stories? That's the song with the most swearing.
lesmisloony

So you're in a super-uptight production which has cut the whores scene and you're playing Fantine. This is a stellar time for you to show off your ability to act. Show the audience how far she has fallen with your behaviour. You're not going to be able to convince anyone to put the scene back in, are you?
carnivalfreakshow

Talking of MASTER OF THE HOUSE censor tales.... or lack there of!

I'm in the same cast as Alexia Dark, as Mme. Thenardier.
They seem to be adding even MORE opportunities for me to be EXTRA crude with this number. Groping customers, stealing and shoving things into my bra, using the old "pinky finger" trick for "there's not much there..." Not a single thing has been cut. I was SO suprised. I thought for sure I would at the very MOST get to say "life long twit!"
Alexia Dark

And yet they don't let a 20-year-old say "Don't they know they're making love to one already dead?"

*sigh*

And don't get me started on the turning of music into dialogue! Sad
l'ivrogne transfiguré

Alexia Dark wrote:
And yet they don't let a 20-year-old say "Don't they know they're making love to one already dead?"


I guess it's because Mme T is more of a comical role, whereas Fantine's story is much more serious, and the lines are not comical. What are you saying instead?

Alexia Dark wrote:
And don't get me started on the turning of music into dialogue! Sad


Shocked But... but it's a musical!!! What's the point in doing that? Confused
Alexia Dark

l'ivrogne transfiguré wrote:


I guess it's because Mme T is more of a comical role, whereas Fantine's story is much more serious, and the lines are not comical. What are you saying instead?


But that part of the scene is, IMO, integral to the story.

And I am saying nothing instead... the song itself is cut, and only a very small part of the scene after the hair-cutting ("Give me the dirt..." to "...show him what you've got") is there, and it cuts right to Bamatabois and Fantine fighting.

Quote:
Shocked But... but it's a musical!!! What's the point in doing that? Confused


I have no freaking clue, especially because the more recitative parts of the show are so much more simple than the songs. Granted, we have only a month and a half left out of 3 months and some of these kids barely whisper, but I think it could be done properly. Alas, not my call...

EDIT: Apparently at today's crawl-through, they have realized how freaking ridiculous most of the scenes look/sound with the 'dialogue' and now emergency rehearsals are being put in during time we do not have to teach the people who were previously speaking to sing it. I wonder what, if any, effect this will have on the mutilated Lovely Ladies/Arrest scene (because entire lines have been cut, making things not rhyme and such.)
Alexia Dark

Sorry for the double-post, but I thought I would just update and shout VICTORY!!!

I have finally convinced them to put Lovely Ladies back in the show. Now, there are no sailors for whatever reason, but the rest of it is back in. Soooooooooo happy. EPIC WIN!!! Very Happy
Bustephen

Elbow wrote:
I can't work out what's worse. Blacklick Valley or... or... the other infamous one - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1773013349632521966&q=Les+Miserables&hl=en#


I can't believe you guys have seen this! I'm sorry for dragging this thread back from the dead, but I was there in the audience! And my brother was in it, to my eternal shame...
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