Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| Annaliese |
A solo song for Cosette1. Do you feel that Cosette should have a solo song (not just a solo within a song- but a song that really explores what is going on with her- with just her onstage- or perhaps singing to Marius?)2. If you think that she should have one, where would you put this song in the play and what would the issue/motivation of the song be? |
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| Emperor of the Fiends |
Re: A solo song for Cosette
Technically, she does have a solo. |
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| Annaliese |
Re: A solo song for Cosette
Right. She has a solo within other songs, as I stated above. But I mean another solo. Perhaps exploring her relationship with Valjean when he just abandons her at the end and doesn't come to her wedding. I know that Valjean felt he was doing what was best for her. But what did Cosette think about it? They just leave Cosette's emotions in the dark. That is just one example. |
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| Aimee |
I think it's complicated. In the book she is one girl and you follow her life through as she ages but in the show she appears to be split into two. I assume you mean the adult Cosette might have a solo but people often forget that the little girl singing 'Castle on a Cloud' is also the Cosette character because of the age factor/different actress type thing. If you take the person as a whole she has just as much to do as any of the other supporting roles.
I think her first solo I saw him once should not have been cut, it is beautiful. As for cutting the whole section with Valjean [papa dear papa bit] that, to me, is unforgvable. It ruins the tenderness between the two of them and just leaves the argument which is a shame. |
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| olly |
I do agree with Annaliese in that I feel that the expression of Cossette's feelings and emotions are somewhat forgotten to a certain extent towards the end of the musical, and I feel as though another solo could have been put in, though I don't think it is essential to the plot; remember - the musical is extremely long as it is!
Olly |
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| Emperor of the Fiends |
They didn't cut that. It was expanded into the longer "In My Life". Go listen to the OBC or CSR. |
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| EponineGiry |
I think that I Saw Him Once should have been left in. I realize it's impractical because of the long In My Life, but frankly I liked ISHO better. | ||||||
| javertsw |
In the actual show now its different to whats on the OLC, though. |
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| Emperor of the Fiends |
That portion of the whole sequence (the Cosette-Valjean bit) has not been changed, no. Like I said-go listen to the recordings-not the TAC but the OBC or CSR. |
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| Aimee |
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| Emperor of the Fiends |
Sigh.
Your earlier quote:
*That* is what was responding to. 
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| Aimee |
OK, you didn't make that clear as you quoted all of my post.
However the section I am referring to which HAS been cut is this : COSETTE In my life I have all that I want You are loving and gentle and good But Papa, dear Papa, In your eyes I am just like a child Who is lost in a wood VALJEAN No more words No more words. It's a time that is dead There are words That are better unheard, better unsaid. Also I regularly listen to both the OLC and the CRS. I do have the OBC but prefer the London cast so listen to that more. I have the original French cast and the Manchester highlights but obviously it's not on those. So I have listened to them, though thanks for your advice. I will no doubt listen to them again and often. As well as that I go to se the show about 3/4 times a year. |
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| Emperor of the Fiends |
Sorry, but no, it has not been cut.
In My Life from the CSR, in case you don't have it to cue up: http://rapidshare.de/files/7690223/International_Cast_-_Rue_Plumet_-_In_My_Life.mp3.html |
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| Aimee |
I know its on the CSR. Why are you going on about that? I know that.
It HAS been cut from the show. I reapeat it is NOT in the show any more. That's what I am talking about. I do know what I mean and am bemused why you keep saying I'm wrong. Again I repeat that I wish is wasn't cut because I think it spoils the moment between the two of them. That is my point on the subject we are talking about here, Cosette's songs. |
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| Emperor of the Fiends |
When was it cut from the show? | ||||||
| Aimee |
In about 2000. Not exactly sure what month, sorry.
They cut 14 minutes from the show so that curtain down was before 10.30pm. That way they could cut the budget by not paying the orchestra over time. CM said it was for artistic reasons but no-one really believes that. |
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| Frank_Rind |
When you purchase the full rights to the score in Australia, "Papa, dear papa" is retained. However, it is cut from the student version.
This has greatly frustrated the Cosette of my production, as we spent several months rehearsing with the full score (our pianist was playing for another production that had the full rights at the time), and then we had to introduce the cuts once we got our student score. It represents such a jump in emotions for the actress who is playing Cosette and, as Aimee said, extracts the tenderness of their relationship. I think we managed to salvage it a bit by having Cosette say, "Papa..." and touch his arm comfortingly just before, "There's so little I know, that I'm longing to know..." An idea I had to possibly expand the role of Cosette was to bring her on for the end of 'The Letter', after Eponine has gone, and have Valjean keep the letter from her. I feel like that would explore Valjean's conflicting feelings about his 'daughter's' relationship with Marius, which is evident more in the book. It would also further develop Valjean keeping secrets from Cosette...she could have been watching from the house, waiting for news from Marius, seen Eponine and come out, only to have her 'Father' tell her that there was no one at the gate. From here there could be a reprise of 'In My Life' for Cosette, or a solo that explores the emotions she is feeling at that present time. However, this would delay 'On My Own', and reduce the impact of that song, and also probably be too much for the audience to take in. It would also be asking too much for the audience to digest another solo number after the fall of the barricades, as it already is a rather long stretch to the Epilogue, and for the uninitiated the ending can drag a bit. In short, the only possible place to insert a solo number for adult Cosette would be around 'In My Life'. I agree that her character almost seemed fuller when that song was in the score, from listening to the live recording Quique posted recently. I really dislike the way so much sympathy is directed towards Eponine in this musical, and Cosette is left under-developed. 
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| javertsw |
I was reffering to it being cut from the London show too.
Frank, I think it would be good bringing Cosette on at that point- but maybe not sing a solo. Just a short dialogue with Valjean, and then sing a line or so by herself on stage, a little like the style of Eponine's: "Ponine she knows her way around." It would also emphasise the big contrast between Eponine and Cosette... ach, I sound so GCSE English. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
It wasn't artistic. It was financial. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
In New York, it was cut in the first week of December, 2000. The changes eventually made their way to London and the US tour around March/April. |
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| LesMisForever |
Hello
I agree with Aimee, "I saw him once" in its original place would be the best thing for the adult Cosette. |
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| Aimee |
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| Meliara |
Sorry if someone already mentioned this:
I think one of the reasons Cosette is thought of as being such a flimsy character is that (musical wise) we are not entirely sure why Marius picks her. They are not given time to bond. He immediately falls for her, and then after the Barricades she has a tiny bit of "Well I'm here, all is good." We don't see what is so irresistable about her, and why Marius is head over heels. Something that is almost always sidestepped is the fact that Cosette IS the reason that Marius is still functioning after the death of his friends. I believe that Marius might have killed himself, but Cosette is really what brought him out of the sorrow. Sadly there really isn't the time to show Marius's progression and Cosette nursing him back to health. I also wish there was a bigger empahsis on Cosette realizing that Eponine (the girl who tormented her as a child) is sticking to Marius like "melted cheese" (If I may quote Norbert Leo Butz in DRS). We know Eponine knows, and therefore it makes Eponine more complex, whereas Cosette's reaction is brushed over. And I personally have trouble connecting characters to their younger conterparts. Cosette is a big a vital role; that is when you look at it from a Young Cosette+ older COsette standpoint. I know I personally think of Cosette as JUST the older Cosette and not the abused little girl she was. Too bad she doesn't remember her childhood, because if she did then she would have a lot more oomph as a character. Thats my 2 cents. |
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| javertsw |
In the London show (maybe elsewhere, I'm not sure) just after the Attack on Rue Plumet, Cosette and Eponine stare at each other at the gate (while the stage rotates I think), which is a nice touch... and I guess is a little like Cosette recognising her... except if Cosette could recognise Eponine surely she would remember the rest of her childhood? | ||||||
| LesMisForever |
Hello
Well i beg to differ about Marius after the Barricade. The musical actually exaggerate Marius's guilt. I have to say again and again, the students were NOT his friends. Only Courfeyac (sp?) was. Marius wouldn't kill himself in a million years (Well maybe for love, but not from guilt). Cosette didn't even know that he was at the barricades if my memory serves me right. The musical doesn't develop Cosette very well, that is true, but in the novel i found her annoying, and OMG she is SHALLOW BIG TIME!!!!. I actually prefer her in the musical. I think the problem with the musical is making Eponine too good, and by that making Marius' decision strange at best. But, hey love and logic don't go together 
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| Colle |
I don't think Cosette really knew that Eponine was sticking to Marius like "melted cheese" (whatever you want to say), in either the book or the musical. As for more parts for Cosette, javertsw did have a good idea for a short dialoge between Cosette and Valjean right before "On My Own," I wonder how well it would work. If I was in charge, I would consider bringing back "I Saw Him Once." I would have to get more of an idea how it would fit in, like wherever or not that song along with "In My Life" and "A Heart Full of Love" would be too long of a slow section in the musical for me to make a final decidsion on bringing it back. Plus, if I was in charge, I would want to bring back most(if not all) what was cut since the CSR, and I am not sure if add that song along with the cuts would make the show too long. |
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| Fantine |
It is. And I think that Cosette tried to forget her painful past the best she could. But is remembered of it when she sings: "There's so little I know that I'm longing to know about the child that I was in a time long ago."
In the novel you mean? |
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| LesMisForever |
Hello
Yes, in the novel. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
They've been doing variations on that on the tour for a long time. |
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| Aimee |
 ] .
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| javertsw |
I agree. I think Cosette is much more like likable in the musical. She is just irritating in the novel. |
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| Annaliese |
Well, I actually HATE I Saw Him Once. Just because it *may* be a longer solo doesn't mean it gives her any more depth. Perhaps if the lyrics are changed. You see, I think that Cosette's main struggle as an adult is her feelings for Valjean conflicting with her feelings for Marius. And that is what is never fully explored. It doesn't even need to be a whole solo but some development of this. It might have been interesting to put some sort of vocal protest when Valjean tells her "prepare to leave and say no more tomorrow we'll away..." All she would really need is like two sung lines which show her devotion to Marius and her frustration with Valjean never telling her what is going on. I would LOVE to of course see that explored in a full song. But I understand that time constraints may not allow that. In a way, Cosette's character is in a similar situation as Christine is POTO- how can she turn away from the man who has given her a life and protected her. But also, how can she go away and leave the man she is in love with? It just sucks that there is not enough time to explore this. Maybe if something else in the show was cut? But I can't think of what. | ||||||
| javertsw |
Cut 'Wishing you were somehow here again'. That song is so boring. | ||||||
| Fantine |
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| Aimee |
lol javertsw, Annaliese meant cut in Les Mis.
xx kiss kiss Fantine do you like the song itself [I think its a bit insipid] or were you at javertsw's comment?
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| javertsw |
Oh, I thought she was reffering to both Christine and Cosette.
Cut 'Wishing...' anyway 
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| Fantine |
I was talking about cutting Wishing You Were Somehow here again. I like the song and I think that it does add something to the show. | ||||||
| nicnikniki |
Sorry to be reviving a bit of a dead topic, but I'd just like to put in my 2 cents... I've just heard "I Saw Him Once" for the first time (the OLC) and I think it's absolutely beautiful! The orchestration right at the beginning is so nice, and the song itself I think is nicer than "I Dreamed A Dream" or "On My Own" (of course that could be because I've really overlistened to them both). It also strikes me as surprising that this is the song they'd choose to cut, because I think there are other little bits that are unnecessary, for example I think "Red and Black" goes on for waaay too long. | ||||||
| Sairin |
It's all exposition though. With a few exceptions, every line of Les Mis is pushing the story on because there's simply so much to cram in. Red and Black introduces the students to us, show us the standpoints of all the different Amis and how they react to each other, and if it takes four minutess to demonstrate the politics of the group then in plot terms, that's much better used than three minutes of Cosette going 'ah, boy is fine'. I think the longer In My Life is a lot more useful, because instead of her going 'omg Marius' she is talking about how her life and herself have been changed by the experience...we know she's in love with him because we saw it in Look Down, that's been done and we can move on from it. Hence the cutting of the song.
(Also, I rather like Red and Black.) |
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| SCurran07 |
Yeah, "Castle on a Cloud" is Cosette's main solo, although it is from her as a child. I am singing it for an off-Broadway musical theatre concert. It's a very beautiful song, actually. Filled with complete emotion and a bittersweet view of her wishful-thinking world.
I love it. Are you both young and old Cosette? Shannon |