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Vanessa20

Another Eponine discussion (hopefully not a dead horse)

I don't think this little corner of Eppybopperdom has been discussed yet on this board.

So many of the old fanfics and poems on LMFFI, and even a few on fanfiction.net, portray Marius as being wracked with guilt after Eponine's death. Even if it doesn't go into "What a dolt I was to choose Cosette" (d'oh!) there's usually a pretty strong vibe of "What a dolt I was not to realize she loved me, I treated her like dirt, if only I had known, ANGST, etc." That guilt-ridden angst is so common in Fanon that for a long time I considered it a genuine aspect of his character. But of course, he doesn't quite give off that vibe regarding her in the Brick, unless there's some passage I'm forgetting.

So I was wondering what people here think of Guilt-Ridden Marius fics. Are they as bad as Eppie Sue and Barricade Angst fics, or more acceptable? Are they a totally valid interpretation of his feelings (Bookverse or Musicalverse) or do they really just reflect how the Boppers think he should feel?

I hope this isn't a dead horse. I know that Eppie Sue and Barricade Angst have been discussed to death, and Guilt-Ridden Marius fics are a close cousin of those, but I don't think they've specifically been discussed so far. Just wondering, because everyone here has such great opinions about things. Very Happy
Quique

I don't really know what to say, except that fanfiction gives me the willies.

But as a long time fan, I will say that I've never gotten the slightest feeling that Marius was guilt-ridden for the reasons you stated. However, I could see how someone might wonder if Marius feels his sending her to deliver the letter might've put her in greater danger of getting shot. I know that he sends her away and tells her not to return, and her decision to go back is in no way his fault, but still..I know I'd probably feel some guilt if that happened to a friend, whether I did something to cause it or not.

Like I said recently in another thread, it seems they used to require every Marius to break down and sob and scream "NOOOO!!!" as they carry her off cause that's how every Marius up to the late 90's did it At least the ones I saw. It was really annoying cause then he'd have to regain his composure in record time, which was AWKWARD. And I never did buy into the sobfest as I felt his reaction wasn't believable given his place in society, his casual relationship with Eponine, and his state of mind at that moment in time.
Vanessa20

Quique wrote:
However, I could see how someone might wonder if Marius feels his sending her to deliver the letter might've put her in greater danger of getting shot. I know that he sends her away and tells her not to return, and her decision to go back is in no way his fault, but still..I know I'd probably feel some guilt if that happened to a friend, whether I did something to cause it or not.


Yeah. It's funny... only one or two of the fics I've read have him blame himself for her death. The majority (even the ones that follow the Brick's continuity and have her take the bullet for him) focus all his angst on the love triangle situation. I guess the fangirls just like to emphasize what touches their own raw nerves.

Quique wrote:
And I never did buy into the sobfest as I felt his reaction wasn't believable


Agreed, though I do like that old 2NT photo of Reece Holland crying and being comforted by Enjolras (that was the first cast you saw, right?). It's pretty, and if only they were less clothed, it would be hot. Laughing
audreydarling

I have a silly question but what is Eppie Sue?

and yeah I agree. I think Marius is heartbroken because Ponine was his best friend but i don't think it's out of romantic love of not choosing her or guilt. i think he is just sad that his friend died. And the over reaction is just a result of bad acting. If he cried a little or was teary eyed in a real way as if his friend had actually died that would be different but I think that a lot of singers in les miz, especially cosette, eponine, and marius tend to not pay as much attention to the acting as they should. Sad it's kind of sad.
Eppie-Sue

audreydarling wrote:
I have a silly question but what is Eppie Sue?

From the wonderful Les Mis Fan Fiction Index
Quote:
Eppie Sue: �ponine, written in such a way that she becomes more a vehicle for the author's fantasies than a reasonable interpretation of �ponine. A variant of Mary Sue.

(Mary Sue: [general] An original fanfic character, distinguished by her obnoxious perfection and her intimate (or *ahem* intimate) familiarity with canon characters. She is typically an idealized version of the author. Here in Miz-land, she is often called "Marie-Suzette" or "Marie-Suzanne" out of a general habit of Frenchifying words.)


And if we're talking about the brick, then we have to drop the "Eponine was Marius' BFF" thesis immediately. Please. The musical has a different take on it, but here it's also up to the actors how close they are and if Marius just tolerates Eponine or actually likes her, just not in that way.

That said, I think lots of actors in the roles of Marius, Cosette or Eponine pay a lot of attention to acting. At least just as much as other actors in other roles. What makes you (audreydarling) think they don't?!

And because I have no life - in the current London production, there is normally no Marius sobfest over Eponine's death. Alistair plays that scene extremely well: He is shaken by it (obviously, seeing as a girl he knew just died a very bloody death in his arms and confessed her love for him), but he doesn't cry his heart out as they carry her off.
audreydarling

Quote:

That said, I think lots of actors in the roles of Marius, Cosette or Eponine pay a lot of attention to acting. At least just as much as other actors in other roles. What makes you (audreydarling) think they don't?!



I didn't mean to offend. I've seen a lot of different versions both amateur and professional and I have seen some Eponines that act and some that are predominantly singers. Most of the Mariuses and Cosettes have been singers. and personally I wasn't that impressed with their acting because it seemed cliched and sappy. It's kind of like the Christine and Raoul in phantom of the opera thing. i have seen a few that are really good but not everyone acts in a way that i am impressed with. again just my opinion.
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