Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| christinadaae |
Character HelpSo.... I've never read the brick.So can someone give me a brief run-down of Cosette's relationship with ValJean in the novel? Thanks! |
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| SomeoneLikeYou |
Re: Character Help
That would be rather difficult even if you'd tried to. Hahahahaha! Anyway... Cosette and Valjean's relationship is as if they were biologically a father and daughter. As in the musical, Valjean refuses to tell Cosette about her mother or where she came from until the very end. Until then, he only tells Cosette that her mother was a "martyr." Nonetheless, Cosette still respects and loves Valjean very much. Ultimately, this is only because Valjean wants nothing but the very best for Cosette. Indeed, in the novel he also despises Marius for quite some time, believing that he will take Cosette from him. However, as he dies, he realizes that Marius will be good to his "daughter" and embraces their marriage with happiness. |
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| Rose Des Enfers |
I remember a line about how he poured all the love he would have felt for any woman into Cosette. Not in a creepy way, just that the lack of a romantic interest in his life made his fatherly love for Cosette that much stronger. | ||||||
| Orestes Fasting |
In the book, Jean Valjean's entire happiness is wrapped up in Cosette: in being a father to her, watching her grow, protecting her, ensuring her happiness, and sheltering her from all the evils that she and Fantine had endured earlier. At some point, when Cosette asks Valjean what happened to her mother, Valjean tells her that Fantine's measure of sorrow in life was equalled by Cosette's measure of happiness, and I think that's very closely tied to his motives--it's as though he wants to retroactively save Fantine by protecting her daughter from all earthly misfortune.
One of the greatest conflicts of the latter part of the book is between Valjean's love for Cosette and his desire to protect her, in fact--he's not going to be around forever, he needs to ensure her future, and most importantly he's still on the run from the law and living under a false name. He considers himself a danger to her. At the same time he loves her so deeply that he never, ever wants to give her up, and he resents Marius the instant he realizes the kid has his eye on Cosette. In the end he decides to sacrifice his own happiness for Cosette's happiness by saving Marius at the barricade, consenting to the wedding, and then cutting himself out of Cosette's life completely. (He does this by telling Marius a very abridged and damning version of his past as an ex-convict and fugitive from the law, and allowing Marius to kick him out of the house.) He ends up dying of a broken heart, though at the last minute Marius discovers (through various plot devices) that Valjean is actually a saint who rescued him from the barricade, and takes Cosette back to see him only to find him on his deathbed. I mention all this because the subplot of "Valjean gives up Cosette, the only source of his happiness in the world, in order to ensure her own happiness" is severely downplayed in the musical to the point where you might not even realize it's there. And IMO that's why Cosette's role in the musical feels so... pointless and abridged. It was a major plot point in the book. |
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| EponineBarker |
Yeah, except for that one film version where Valjean falls in love with Cosette. 
(Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a filmed version where that sub-plot was thrown in?) |
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| Orestes Fasting |
Yes, unfortunately. And it wasn't even the most wretched thing about that version. |
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| EponineBarker |
What is the most wretched thing about it? Which version was it that had Valjean be like that? I can't remember...wasn't it like a French miniseries or something? Is it even worth watching? 
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| Orestes Fasting |
It was the 2000 miniseries with Gerard Depardieu as Valjean.
Other really unfortunate things about that version: - John Malkovitch as Javert - John Malkovitch as Javert in a leather Matrix trenchcoat - Fugly Marius - Goth-sexbomb Eponine telling Fugly Marius she'll give him Cosette's address... if he sleeps with her - Fugly Marius agrees - Cosette pulling a gun on Toussaint - Mysterious Non-Aging Gavroche giving Valjean and ickle Cosette a place to crash in Paris in 1823, then mysteriously turning up in 1832 looking exactly the same age - Fauchelevent joining the National Guard and getting shot by Enjolras - Valjean's cunning plan during a chase scene: set a haystack on fire and then hide in it - Unreasonably extended convent sequence that is a transparent excuse to give Jeanne Moreau lots of screentime as Creepy Chain-Smoking Mother Superior - Fantine's 70s-glam-band-reject haircut - Gratuitous Th�nardier PDA. In front of the kids. - Really hot Sister Simplice who looks like she's mentally undressing Valjean every time they're in the same room - Eponine's death scene: as though the blood-smeared cleavage weren't gross enough, she spends the whole scene spitting up blood and then Marius kisses her on the lips So basically, it's what would happen to Les Mis if you made every single character (with the possible exceptions of Fantine and Cosette) into a complete and utter sketchball. |
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| EponineBarker |
...Wow...That is one screwed-up Les Mis film. (Although reading about the hiding in the haystack on fire kinda made me laugh a little...yes, I'm extremely weird.) I remember seeing a clip of the Eponine death scene, but after reading your list, I don't know if I could stomach any more of that version. (No offense to anyone who likes it.) And what's with the idea of Cosette pulling a gun on someone?! I thought it was bad enough they did it in the 1998 film with Liam Neeson, but hearing that that idea was done in two films? Ugh... 
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| lesmisloony |
(You forgot to mention that Toussaint is male and mysteriously mute, thus has to communicate by chalkboard like in that book about swans we all read as kids...) | ||||||
| Orestes Fasting |
I mean, it does have some redeeming qualities. Like Virginie Ledoyen. And pretty (if not always accurate) costumes. And Valjean giving Mme Victurnien the bitching-out she so richly deserved. It's just that it was adapted by the sort of people who probably wrote doctoral dissertations about the phallic symbolism of the spindle in Sleeping Beauty. | ||||||
| lesmisloony |
I like it, actually.
Not my favourite film version, but I amazingly don't hate it. Probably because of Virginie Ledoyen. And I'm a sucker for Depardieu. |
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| MlleTholomy�s |
The Amis!Slumberparty would have to be my favourite. |
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| Orestes Fasting |
Aw, but that's so cute it almost counts as a redeeming quality, anachronistic pajamas and all. "Marius! Marius! Wake up, look in the street, it's a revolution! Ooh boy I'm so excited it's like Christmas only with more death."
...oops, this thread is kind of getting derailed isn't it? Sorry. |
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| Despina Loves Snow |
^ That be a pretty summary about the 2000 miniseries, citizen.  And for longer, we always have Loony's vesion.
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| EponineBarker |
So do you think it'd be worth seeing at least once? I'm always up for seeing other filmed versions of Les Mis that I haven't seen before. |
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| Vice |
lol ... Oh MY. XD ... lol |
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| Ulkis |
You know, I've been thinking lately I've been rather unfair to poor Fugly Marius. Because the guy who played Marius in the 1952 version with Michael Rennie was also hideous and too old. EponineBarker, the 2000 version is worth watching, but you have to know French/the novel well, because it doesn't have any subtitles. Unless you buy an illegal Chinese bootleg on e-bay, I suppose. I'd suggest watching this version first. It has cute Marius. Oh, cute Marius. |
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| UKDeer42 |
Aww... cute Marius is so cute with his light tufty hair ^_^ I think it'd be awesome if they made the West End version of Marius look like him. Maybe it'd help the audience feel more sympathy towards him and the other students with his premature curly locks ^^ It seems like a pretty good version. Which one is this? I'd love to have it on DVD And "Eeep!" to the 2000 adaptation. What an awful adaptation! Then again awful adaptation seem to be the norm in everything don't they? Like every kids fantasy book released these days is turned into a Harry Potter rip off (and some of the things they do with Harry Potter are quite upsetting as well- take the crappy Jule Ball song in the movie for instance) and don't get me started on Bambi... However I've got to admit some film adapations have been good (LOTR the movie was MUCH better than the books) but generally all literature seems to be formualised when it goes onto the screen. I prefer stage adaptations to be honest and most of the other versions of Les Miz. Although then again there are some rewarding qualities to the 2000 version:
Sounds like every Eppie-bobber's dream come true. If we're going to be making anymore unfaithful film adaptations of Les Miz then they should just as well feature more fan pairings if they're not going to keep to the original text just to please the fans (hm... maybe some slash perhaps?). Generally I'm not a big fan of fan fiction but if they're going to crush up the story so it features more violence, sex and goths then they might as well try to appeal to the fans in a different way 
[EDIT] Whoops! Sorry about double posting! I remembered some last minute changes and stopped loading the page and so it all messed up and posted it twice! Soz!
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| Ulkis |
It's this one, but it's only available in region one, unfortunately. |
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| MlleTholomy�s |
Yeah. Uhm, I tried watching it a few weeks ago, and the only thing I got out of it was that it's some nice eyecandy.
I think my heart just stopped. OML, CUUUTE. |
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| Rose Des Enfers |
Oh goodness... that's just... wow. Although with all the other comments on it, I now have a strong urge to see it... |
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| MlleTholomy�s |
When I first read Les Miz (it was abridged; don't worry. I now have the brick, and it's all good.) I thought Valjean loved Cosette. I guess I got this impression because Valjean was like "rhahag rage", and it didn't include any of the digressions, except for the one where he was pissed that Marius was going to take Cosette away.
It seems as if I'm psychic. I hadn't even HEARD of the 2000 miniseries at that time, let alone had WATCHED it. |