Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| badwolfwho3 |
Doctor Who/Les MiserablesOk.What doctor who or torchwood characters could you see doing the roles of the les mis characters? rose= eponine/cosette She's in a parallel universe, so OMO would fit perfectly, because she can't have the doctor in a parallel universe.However, she seems waaaaay to Mary Sue, so she's kind of like Cosette in a way. In my opinion, of course. doctor= marius or JVJ. Because he's been to a ton of places and switches identities. (JVJ) and rescues people. And Marii because he somehow manages to get girls' attention (Like Cosette and Eponine= Martha or Rose or Donna) Jack= Because,like Javert, he's always hunting The Doctor, or JVJ, down, and trying to capture him, or meet him, in this case. Plus, he's kind of like a crimefighter. An alien crimefighter. The creepy fish guy who in, the early 1900's, goes around and gets free food and cheats people and stuff, and then Jack catches him= Thendaier. Because he cheats and stuff. And gets caught by Jack, or Javert. Ok, any others? |
||||||||||||||||
| lizavert |
Try this on for size:
Jack-Courfeyrac - The ultimate ladies man. The Doctor-Combeferre-Because let's face it, is there anyone nerdier than the Doctor? |
||||||||||||||||
| badwolfwho3 |
Unfortunately I haven't read the book, so I wouldn't know any SPECIFIC characters. I WILL read it though, in time.
I'm going off the musical characters right now. Until I've read the book, that is. Still, good idea though. |
||||||||||||||||
| MmeJavert |
...Obviously you were watching a completely different version of Doctor Who than I was.
Rose? Not a Mary Sue. (Nor is Cosette.) Please look up what a Mary Sue is before putting that label on any female character cast in a positive light. Rose is not a sweet young thing like Cosette was, either. Comparing her to Eponine? Gag me, no. Last I checked Rose had Mickey. Jack? Is about the furthest you can get from Javert. Jack has a life outside of work, Jack is not a lawman (remember how he was A CON MAN?), and Javert would never, ever, ever shag anything, while Jack wouldn't REFUSE to shag anything. The Doctor? Emphatically nothing like Jean Valjean. Jack and Courfeyrac is a rather better analogy. The Doctor is not overcome by periods of huge guilt and moral issues. Also, just because the Doctor traipses around with pretty female companions does not compare it to Valjean's adoption of little Cosette. |
||||||||||||||||
| oxSourPatchRooxo |
Hi, ok, this is not really relevant, I just wanted to say...
I LOVE DOCTOR WHO. LUUUURVE LUV LUV IT. Ok all done now ^.^ |
||||||||||||||||
| badwolfwho3 |
Geez. Sorry. I haven't read the book. Remember?
Sorry about getting everything wrong. Again, I am a HUGE newbie: naive and stupid. I loooooove Doctor Who and Les Miserables, but for the time being, I will stick to Doctor Who, because obviously I don't have enough experience with Les Miserables to make good posts. Again, sorry. |
||||||||||||||||
| badwolfwho3 |
And yes I know what a Mary Sue is! | ||||||||||||||||
| badwolfwho3 |
Ok.
But who could you see playing any characters? Forget about the parallels analyzing thing. |
||||||||||||||||
| badwolfwho3 |
And for the record...
I haven't actually seen the musical. I only have the soundtrack, and have seen bits and pieces from Youtube. Sorry. |
||||||||||||||||
| MmeJavert |
Don't take offence, but why are you trying to slap characters from one fandom you love into another fandom you claim to love, if you know next to nothing about one of the fandoms? I'd research my fandoms before making any sort of commentary or comparisons between the two. I note it says you're "obsessed" with the two fandoms, and "obsessed" means to me going to any lengths necessary to find out everything possible about a fandom -- and your posts here seem to indicate otherwise.
And was it really necessary to post four times in a row, rather than put it all, I don't know, into one post? |
||||||||||||||||
| Moci |
Out of interest, have you seen the fourth series, or not? |
||||||||||||||||
| badwolfwho3 |
You have a very good point.
I should definetly do some more research. And sorry for the many posts. THIS TOPIC IS NOW CLOSED. GOODBYE ALL. Sorry for the dissapointment. And the bad spelling and false facts. No offense taken. |
||||||||||||||||
| MmeJavert |
Does the Doctor spend an entire night agonising whether to give himself up in the fourth series? Is there something in it that would relate him to Valjean? (I don't mean to sound sarcastic, I'm honestly curious.) |
||||||||||||||||
| Moci |
I wouldn't say that there are any periods of anguish to compare to Valjean, but there are definitely times of self-doubt, moral dilemma and guilt for what happens to those whose lives he touches, more so than in previous series. I won't spoil Series 4 for you though. |
||||||||||||||||
| lesmisloony |
*swoops into this thread like a Krillitane*
(I lol'd at this.)
Hmm, eenteresting. I feel like that about Doctor Who sometimes. I mean, obviously you're not really interested in anything but the new series, but there's actually far more Doctor Who out there than there is LM. DW has the old show that ran from '63-'89, the Eight movie, and countless books/audiobooks/comics, whereas Les Mis only has one (admittedly long) novel that actually matters as far as canon. And then the second best option is the musical, but it only takes about three hours of your life to watch--that would only be about four episodes of Doctor Who. So how can the Doctor Who fandom be easier on newcomers? (Other than tardis.wiki, of course.) Anyway, I saw this topic and did a total double take. |
||||||||||||||||
| badwolfwho3 |
[quote]THIS TOPIC IS NOW CLOSED.
GOODBYE ALL. Well apparently this topic isn't closed. Anyway, I have read a dw novel and watched a few oldies episodes. Yet Les Miserables is easier to get into. There's only one novel, after all! But can we PLEASE stay on topic and not focus on my inexperience? I think, like the Doctor, Valjean struggles with moral issues. There are countless times that the Doctor either kills or spares someone's life. And like Donna Noble once said "I think you need someone to stop you sometimes." Valjean also struggles with this, on whether or not to kill Javert. And he lets him go, like the Doctor does with certain "baddies" later in the series. The Doctor's sympathy grows for certain characters, like the Slitheens and those Arachnids spider things. And I have seen the fourth series. Only I haven't seen the finale because I understand a lot of old characters are coming back, so I've been trying to watch every single episode (starting with series 1) to try and get plot clues and foreshadowing and all that good stuff. |
||||||||||||||||
| mastachen |
[quote="badwolfwho3"]
Well of course it's not closed. You're not God (or a mod). You can't just declare a topic closed and expect people to just stop commenting or posting in the thread... |
||||||||||||||||
| EponineMNFF |
[quote="mastachen"]
|
||||||||||||||||
| music is my life!!! |
Here's my version of the cast, even if this topic is s'posed to be "closed"
OMG whoever came up with this is GENIUS!!! Based on character "types" Valjean - The Doctor Javert - The Master Fantine - Rose Tyler Factory Girl - Suzie Costello (awesomest character ever!!!) Thenardier - Billis Manger Mdm. Then - Mary (from series 1, ep7 "Greeks Bearing Gifts") Marius - Owen Harper Eponine - Toshiko Sato Cosette - Gwen Cooper Enjolras - Ianto Jones Gavroche - Captain Jack (there's nowhere else!!!  )
Little Cosette - that creepy tarot card girl from series 2 of TW Yes, I'm a tad on the obsessed side of TW.... lol |
||||||||||||||||
| lesmisloony |
Close, very close. Though I feel like Valjean actually had to struggle to do the right thing while the Doctor (especially Ten) has just become Mister Jesus and does everything right all the time. ("DAVROS. COME WITH ME. I CAN SAVE YOU."  )
Hmmm... I'm gonna say those two are total opposites. In, like, every way.
Suzie's awesomeness is totally undeniable. Also she's purrrty. And if you went the fanfic route and pretended Rose was pregnant instead of Jackie at the end of s2, that would totally work. I could even see pre-s4 Rose singing IDAD over in Pete's World without the not canon!baby. Win win win.
I've all but forgotten the intricacies of these characters, but I totally wanna see Thenardier do the Evil Gay vibe that Billis was bringin'. It would be lolarious.
I see why you did this, but NOOO! Marius is not a manwhore rapist! (Um, I love Owen. A lot. But he *did* have the rape spray.) Also, Eponine is not a dorky beautiful genius.
I actually can't find too much fault with this, given the limits of our character choice. Maybe I love Gwen too much? But ooh! Rhys could totally be Marius and Owen could be, like, Theodule. You remember that part? With Theodule outside the fence? Remember? ...eh.
I... I'm prepared to be e-murdered for this, but I don't get everyone's fascination with Ianto. Then again, I don't get everyone's fascination with Enj either, so maybe it works for me personally.  However, having just finished rewatching Cyberwoman, I can't see Enjolras pitching an emo crying fit like Ianto tends to do...
(PS - Someone please tell me what's so great about him?)
I find both of these ideas a bit scary. Because Gavroche as a pansexual manwhore is... well, it's just creepy, actually. Lalala, sorry I randomly dissected your post. I'm putting off going to bed for some reason and I'm very excited my virus-y computer allowed me to come to the forums in the first place, so I'm posting wherever I can... WHOA. I was proofing my post and staring at my banner and I thought "Hmmm, manwhores... like Montparnasse!" Thus I have just personally cast Weevil King!Owen as Montparnasse. The moodiness and excellent cheekbones support this casting. |
||||||||||||||||
| Megziid |
Getting off-topic now, but
Have you seen the second series? "Mobiles, landlines, tin cans with bits of string, everything, absolutely everything: no phones, phones all broken. [holds up hand in imitation of telephone] Hello? Anyone there? No! Cause the phones aren't working! " Ianto Jones: It's all over. Owen Harper: [pauses] Let's all have sex. Ianto Jones: [deadpan] And I thought the End of the World couldn't get any worse. Ianto Jones: They know more about this place than I do. [bangs fist on table] Ianto Jones: Nobody knows more than I do! Ianto Jones: We don't sniff the sub-etheric resonator! Captain Jack Harkness: What did you see? Rhys Williams: Er, it was like this huge, shapeless beast, filling the space, like a mound of flesh. Toshiko Sato: So it's like one massive entity as opposed to several organisms...? If we understood how it worked, we could feed the whole world! Ianto Jones: [deadpan] We could release a single! I could go on forever... |
||||||||||||||||
| Moci |
But then unlike Valjean, whilst the Doctor mostly does the right thing, he also seems to work on a 'no second chances' principle, as evidenced by his treatment of the Family of Blood, he'll let them live once, but not twice The Fury of a Timelord (spoilers for Series 3) Thats not exactly forgiving, Jesus-like and Valjean-ish really.
I'd have thought post-Father's Day Jackie would be more in IDAD singing mode than Rose.
What about Owen as portrayed in 'Adam', he reverted into being rather Mariussy, if Tosh is Cosette. |
||||||||||||||||
| lesmisloony |
Post-Father's Day Jackie as Fantine would totally work, agreed. And... what was the episode with the flashbacks? Fragments? That version of Owen along with Adam!Owen could both work as Marius, I think.
As for the Doctor, you've raised an excellent point. I absolutely love it when he actually is a No Second Chances sort of man as with the Sycorax and the Family, but how does No Second Chances apply to his behaviour with the Sontarans or Davros? I guess you could argue that he hesitated and warned the Sontarans about ten times because he wasn't really keen on the idea of blowing up himself as well (ooh! Marius!) but offering to save Davros? That's one moment that never fails to disgust me. Because that wasn't just a second chance. How many stories have featured Davros trying to control/destroy the world/universe? It's a hundredth chance. And, I mean, really! What, was Davros just going to go, "Oh, okay!" and roll up into the TARDIS to live happily ever after to the theme from Friends? And what about with the Master, trying to get him to regenerate so he could settle down with him (lolsubtext)? That was more than a second chance as well. Err, I'm sort of leaving the original point here. But this is a problem I've long had with Rusty's version of Ten, and I've finally jumped onto the Save Us O Moff! bus with everybody else. As for Ianto, I watched both series back in April and I did love the line about sniffing the sub-etheric resonator, but a bunch of snarky one-liners do not an obsess-worthy character make, in my humble opinion. This week I'm rewatching both series now that I know all the characters better and I've gotten obsessed with Doctor Who. (I almost screamed when Carrys the sexin' alien threw Future Cloney Hand...) I finished Countrycide last night (still the freakiest episode, I think). Admittedly most of what Ianto has done thus far is cry hysterically over Lisa the mysteriously feminine and really strange-looking plastic cyberwoman, but I'm hoping this time through I'll be able to see what makes the entire fandom fawn unanimously over one character. Also, on-topic: I woke up in the middle of the night thinking Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen for Madame Thenardier! Amirite?[/i] |
||||||||||||||||
| music is my life!!! |
Moci - don't worry about dissecting my post, i like my opinion to be analysed (it makes a change from generally being walked over by people i know  ) and i love to see everyone's opinions. Yes, i agree with the Jackie Tyler in Father's Day thingy, but i wanted to include all (or as many as poss) of the lead characters in both series, ut Jackie was only in a couple of eps, so i left her out... 
|
||||||||||||||||
| lizavert |
1. Blon as Mme. T? You are so right loony. That would be great.
2. Ianto is cute. I'll admit it, however I'm going to agree with loony (again? yes.) I really don't see what's with the obsession. Ianto/Jack is the best pairing you could possibly ask for in the Torchwood universe, but even if you add the factor of his humor, it just doesn't add up to OMG! OBSESS! for me. 3. As for the Doctor. If you look back over the entire series, I'm not just talking about the new stuff, I'm talking about the whole thing, like since 1963. You see him take everyone on a case by case basis. He's had the chance to eradicate the Daleks before. Not just in the new series, there was a point in his fourth incarnation where he had to struggle with whether or not he had the right to make it so the Daleks never existed. He didn't do it, I think, it's been a while since I've seen the old series, because he didn't have the right to decide who gets to live and who gets to die. In the case of the Master, the Master was the only other Timelord left. Think about it. For the previous two seasons he thought he was literally the last of his kind, then all of a sudden he isn't. It makes sense for him to hold on to that. Even if it means having to lock up the Master in the Tardis. At least, that's my interpretation of the situation. And I still like my Jack/Courfey idea. With Ianto taking the role of Jehan. |
||||||||||||||||
| Moci |
As lizavert said very well, the Master's (more than) second chance was because they were the only two Timelords left in existence. After the guilt and anguish of knowing that the destruction of his own race was his doing, he'd have probably felt a heck of a lot better knowing that he didn't just save himself when the rest were dead, someone else survived as well. The Timelords and the TARDIS were the only constants in his life, they only people to share his lifespan and the only people who he wouldn't have to watch age and die whilst he remained young. After losing that once, he wouldn't want to again. Also, when the Master refused to regenerate, he won- the Doctor may have been able to save the human race, but once again, not his own. And as for Davros, he was the cause of one of the only examples of the Doctor losing his control and actually threatening someone with a gun (the Fifth Doctor threatened Davros with a Dalek's death ray), something which probably plays on his mind considering that Davros had been goading him about his hypocrisy for the best part of an episode "The wrath of a Timelord who butchered millions" "The Doctor's soul will be revealed... The man who abhors violence, never carrying a gun. But this is the truth, Doctor: you take ordinary people and you fashion them into weapons. Behold your children of time transformed into murderers. I made the Daleks, Doctor. You made this. How many more? Just think. How many have died in your name? The Doctor: the man who keeps running, never looking back because he dare not, out of shame. This is my final victory, Doctor. I have shown you yourself." And then after all of this, the clone Doctor appears and runs at Davros with a gun, he destroys millions Daleks on impulse alone just because he believes in a prophecy. Yet again the Doctor has caused ultimate destruction, he has become what he's been denying to Davros he is. His attempt to save Davros is as much IMO a reaction to Davros' manipulations, as well as the fact that Davros had been left defenseless, so didn't need to die, just be kept away from trouble in the same way that he might have kept the Master. |
||||||||||||||||
| music is my life!!! |
In which case, i think the master and Billis should be switched on my cast list
Valjean - The Doctor Javert - Billis Manger Fantine - Rose Tyler Factory Girl - Suzie Costello (awesomest character ever!!!) Thenardier - The Master Mdm. Then - Mary (from series 1, ep7 "Greeks Bearing Gifts") Marius - Owen Harper Eponine - Toshiko Sato Cosette - Gwen Cooper Enjolras - Ianto Jones Gavroche - Captain Jack (there's nowhere else!!! ) Little Cosette - that creepy tarot card girl from series 2 of TW btw i put Cpt Jack at Gavroche because he's really like a young pussycat in DW, although he is less erm.... selfrestraining and he has no/few inhibitions in TW... so he's kinda like Gavvy, in some wierd and twisted way!
|
||||||||||||||||
| lesmisloony |
Moci and lizavert, thanks for those. I really like the Doctor, really I do, but sanctimony (is that a word? sanctimoniousness?) is something that doesn't ever sit well with me, so your analyses actually helped me not roll my eyes just a bit.
But then there's always this:
THIS IS A TEXTBOOK EXAMPLE OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO "CARRY A GUN," DAV. I also decided not to put in Ten holding the gun to that guy's head in Doctor's Daughter (worst episode ever?) because HE. NEVER. WOULD. (But seriously. Nine was so badass.) Oh! And this! Ten says the sonic screwdriver doesn't kill, doesn't wound, doesn't maim, but you see him kill (or switch off, whatever) that Cyberman in Age of Steel using the screwdriver. Any Cyberman would probably argue that the sonic screwdriver is a weapon. |
||||||||||||||||
| Moci |
I guess though that it's not so much the carrying a gun as the firing a gun (Davros actually saw Five sticking a gun at him), butif so, it's a lapse on Russell's part. Or maybe the fact that in general, the Doctor's job would be so much easier if he did carry a gun- Land the TARDIS, quick 007 type shoot-out and back to the TARDIS to 'dance' with the companion of the moment and yet, although he has brandished guns, he doesn't carry one around with him. And 'The Doctor's Daughter' was awful- they drowned a fish how exactly? Should've drowned Martha for spending the entire episode being boring. But I will forgive all it's faults just cause of the fact that I am in love with Georgia Moffett.
I suppose that the difference is that the sonic has no effect on flesh or blood (or wood even, according to 'Silence in the Library'), but it does on machines, which is what a Cyberman is. Also, I like to believe that the sonic is capable of maiming or killing, but that the Doctor has turned those features off (it's like the DIY version of Donna Noble- sometimes he needs something to stop him) and so it would let him kill the Cyberman, because as I remember it, it was more an act of euthanasia to the real person, than a murder. I guess to be honest, that the Doctor's moral code depends a lot on who he's with and how much his wrath has taken over his sense of right and wrong. |
||||||||||||||||
| Catherine |
Badass, but so cool. I liked Doctor's Daughter... wasn't my fave in the series though. |
||||||||||||||||
| lesmisloony |
The Doctor's Daughter is probably my least favourite episode ever, but then, I'm so totally over Ten!angst. Jenny was such a Sue that it hurt, but I still couldn't make myself dislike her (which REALLY says something for Georgia Moffet). But that episode didn't make any sense. And I hadn't even thought about the fact that that fish DROWNED. (I lol'd at that comment for a few minutes.) My basic irritations were things like - okay, if they've gone through so many generations that last week has become legend, where are the bodies?? And, hey, we're straight out of a spaceship, colonising a new planet. What should we build first? Oh! How about a 1920's style theatre?
I'm pretty sure that's the only episode I coudn't stand to rewatch. I also hated Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, but I'm giving Moff another chance because the amazing-ness of Blink cannot be rivaled. And he developed Captain Jack, the running joke about bananas, and the scariest monsters in the whole show. But SitL bothered me because it contains the actual only character in the entire Whoniverse that I've EVER disliked. River Song. UGH. And, um, made me hate the word spoilers. And because the Doctor acted like he didn't realise he was a time traveller. Why exactly did it take him so long to realise who River Song was? She wasn't exactly vague. And what was the point of the Vashta Nerada taking up residence in a slow suit they could barely steer? They seemed to be fine--and REALLY FAST--without the stupid suit. But I liked the computer reality. It was sufficiently creepy. And, as always, Donna was amazing. And the basic idea behind the Vashta Nerada was delightfully terrifying. |
||||||||||||||||
| Moci |
I have to admit that I did love 'Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead' overall, but I do mostly agree with your points. I was trying after it aired to work out why the Doctor took so long to realise who River Song was and justified it to myself as the fact that the (unspecified in the episodes) role that River Song plays in his life is one that he cannot fathom being a part of his lifestyle. It's not that he doesn't guess who she is, but knows that it shouldn't be possible. I've reasoned to myself as well that the shadows took up residence in the spacesuit because they needed to scare the remaining people- as long as they had their wits about them and stayed in the light, they were fine, but if they were frightened and unable to count the shadows, they were an easier target. I can't help feeling that Moffat sometimes writes utilising concepts ("A skeleton in a spacesuit in the dark- that'll look good") and figuring the details out later. It was something which luckily didn't affect his Series 1, 2 and 3 scripts, but I've wondered about it before in his work after watching the occasional episode of 'Press Gang' and 'Coupling' where the concept behind the episode has more potential than the end result. I did love the other world in the computer and also Moffat's dialogue (I've never known it not to be brilliant), as well as the fact that on a Saturday night, in primetime, he dared to push the boundaries of what could be done. |
||||||||||||||||
| lesmisloony |
Haha, I see your SitL wank and I accept it. Mostly because I hate being unhappy with an episode of mah show.
I think, Moff or otherwise, the show really, really needs a new commander. I was looking back on series two (my favourite because of my shameful shippiness) and noticing how cheery it all was and how happy the Doctor seemed to be. He was hilarious and wonderful, you know? He and Rose were so goofy together that you couldn't help but smile just a bit. Or a lot, in my case. And then, after such a relatively (comparatively, rather) light-hearted series the emo finale crushed you because it was so different. It was the first time you saw the Doctor cry, I think, and that was... shattering. I know this because I went through it for the first time only a few months ago, see. And I cried at for an entire day, no lies, after I finished series two. Like, even in public places. I burst into tears in a restaurant. But then it all went downhill because RTD, I guess, decided he liked making the Doctor cry. And it became the angstfest we now know (and still love). I want the Doctor to be happy again. And I think the overall show--and RTD--have done a good job of making some sort of end to the stories we've been following thus far. Rose is set up, Donna has been Haitian'd, and Martha (perhaps) and Mickey are off to bring me glee by joining Torchwood (I love Mickey. I just do.). And there was no "Wot? Wot?? WOT?" ending, so it all felt really final, you know? Ahh! What am I rambling about? Geez, I don't know why I don't leave these thoughts on my lj where they belong... |
||||||||||||||||
| lizavert |
After (finally!) seeing the finale last night, I would like to revise my theory as to why the Doctor tries to save Davros. The reason, I think, is that the other Doctor committed genocide and the real Doctor wants to at least try and make up for that. After all, he feel incredibly responsible for the death of his own race. And then there's that scene in "Dalek" when the Dalek tells him that he would make a good Dalek. I think that that statement haunts him. He doesn't want to be a destroyer, granted that sometimes he has no choice, but that doesn't mean he doesn't feel guilty afterward.
And RTD really does need to bring the fun back into the series. The whole angstfest thing is getting old. |
||||||||||||||||
| lesmisloony |
Oooh, I love that thought. Any tie-in with the first series tends to make me gleeful, though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O90CYGNvOfE Not the best video ever made, but it sure is good for the post-s4 soul. And a good song. |