Laureon
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Females in Male Roles: Broadway vs. School ProductionSometime during last summer a touring broadway production of Les Mis came to Grand Rapids. After going to see the musical and buying the complete soundtrack, I can safely say that Les Mis is the best musical that I have yet to see...
I got involved with the Drama department at my school this year with the production of "The Music Man" and had a great time, but my director is considering running the school edition of "Les Mis" for 2007...
The only problem we have is that we're severely lacking in the males, as our school has a fairly small drama department. We have about five strong actors, 2 or three of which can sing. In the Music Man, I was cast as a salesman in Rock Island, and today my director came up to me and asked if I would be willing to play a man if he decided to go ahead with Les Mis. While Eponine would be my first choice, I wouldn't object to being a male lead if it was needed (Then again, I wouldn't object to ANY lead!). 
I was listening to my broadway CD of Les Mis today and thinking about my directors proposition. I would say that I have a good range, particularly for lower notes, but when singing along with something like "Stars" I have trouble singing parts of verses (I croak out when Javert sings "Fallen from Grace" for the first time). Aside from that, I'm comfortable with most of the music.
Anyway, I was curious to know if the school production of Les Mis is much different either musically or with the entire show as the Broadway production. If anyone can point out major differences to me, I would be really appreciative. Also, any information concerning where possible scrpits and other materials can be obtained, I'd love to know.
Lauren, 16
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Orestes Fasting
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Many of the parts in the school edition have been transposed down, so they would be easier for a male actor to sing, but would probably be significantly more difficult for a girl unless they were taken up an octave.
I personally would be uncomfortable seeing a female Valjean unless it were an all-girl production, in which case it would be merely off-putting. I can't, off the top of my head, think of any particular parts where he goes very low--it's mainly a tenor role, though I'm sure there are a few--but I still wouldn't recommend it.
Forget Javert unless you're willing to transpose up the octave. It's a written for a baritone or baritenor and has probably been taken down for the school edition. If you thought Stars was hard to sing along to on the cast recording...
Marius has a fairly high part, I'd just be worried about the low "never came" in Empty Chairs at Empty Tables and other such things. If you wound up playing him I suppose you could speak those bits.
Th�nardier, especially his part in Master of the House, is probably a bit too low. Depends on how comfortable you are with, say, a low D. And he's another part that should probably be played by a guy, preferably a strong actor who doesn't necessarily have to have an amazing voice.
I've heard of girls playing Enjolras before, and wholly approve. XD There are a couple dicey bits in Do You Hear the People Sing that should probably be taken up an octave, but the bulk of his music lies in a range that's most appropriate for a high tenor but could be sung by an alto.
Overall, I'd try for Marius or Enjolras if you're going to do a male part. They're both younger characters, so it would be less odd to see them as trouser roles, and they're both for tenors and should be easier for an alto to sing. (Though if you're transposing things up an octave, then you'd want to go for Javert I guess.) And if you don't want to do mushy love scenes with another girl, that pretty much leaves you with Enjolras.
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eponinelover
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Broadway VS School productionsHi,
In answer to your question, the school edition is different in that it is ededited, where the more inappropriate material was removed, and I think they editeded Valjean's and Javert's solos a little, made them shorter. I have seen both the broadway and the school edition, and I liked them both a lot. I don't know if the crross-gendor thing is a good idea, but if you had to, I suppose it could be done. You can obtain license to do the school edition at MTI, and you can find costume rentals at DC Theatrics. Hope this info helps!
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Orestes Fasting
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Re: Broadway VS School productions | eponinelover wrote: | Hi,
In answer to your question, the school edition is different in that it is ededited, where the more inappropriate material was removed, and I think they editeded Valjean's and Javert's solos a little, made them shorter. I have seen both the broadway and the school edition, and I liked them both a lot. I don't know if the crross-gendor thing is a good idea, but if you had to, I suppose it could be done. You can obtain license to do the school edition at MTI, and you can find costume rentals at DC Theatrics. Hope this info helps! |
They most certainly did not take out the inappropriate bits!  All the bits with the whores and the bad language in Master of the House have been kept in unless the schools themselves edit them. The cuts and changes in the school edition are mostly to either reduce the length (cuts) or to make them easier for younger singers to handle (key changes).
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Timmy_Wishes he was Quast
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NO NO NO!! Do not cast females in male parts! I hate seeing shows like that!
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Orestes Fasting
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| Timmy_Wishes he was Quast wrote: | | NO NO NO!! Do not cast females in male parts! I hate seeing shows like that! |
Why not? It's a time-honored tradition, after all, and LM has stolen plenty of other time-honored traditions from the opera world.
Or maybe I'm just biased because when I was Cherubino my britches were dead sexy.
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Laureon
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Thanks for all of the information everyone, it really is a help. 
| Quote: | | I personally would be uncomfortable seeing a female Valjean unless it were an all-girl production, in which case it would be merely off-putting. |
I have to agree here. While I believe that girls can be put in male roles, there comes exeptions for prominate leads. For most of the show, Val Jean is an older guy, and having him as a girl really wouldn't work... I put him on the poll for the sake of curiosity, but I'm not considering his character.
| Quote: | | Forget Javert unless you're willing to transpose up the octave. It's a written for a baritone or baritenor and has probably been taken down for the school edition. |
Javert was one character I actually was considering. Partly because he doesn't have any "relations" with any of the female characters in the play, and partly because he's such a great character. I was curious if "Stars" could be transposed or not, considering that there aren't alot of instruments in the sequence, it might be played only by a keyboard. Bring it up an entire octave would be out of the question, but a few keys might not hurt.
| Quote: | | Marius has a fairly high part, I'd just be worried about the low "never came" in Empty Chairs at Empty Tables and other such things. If you wound up playing him I suppose you could speak those bits. |
I would love to do Marius, but I could run into a problem with that. I live in a very conservative community, and my director usually doesn't "gender bend" with roles that have romantic relations with other characters. I could ask him, but I don't think that he would let me do that. If I could though, Maruis would be my first choice...
I'll get to the other character in my next post. Unfortunately, I'll have to cut this short for now. Thanks again for the insight!
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Orestes Fasting
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In that case, you're best with Enjolras or transposed!Javert.
The advantage of taking it up an octave is that the instrumentalists don't have to do any transposition at all. And even with that arrangement, I don't think you'd be going much higher than you would as Eponine--she has a D or D sharp (can't remember) in A Heart Full of Love, and Javert goes up to an E in Stars. His part is higher overall, of course, and it might be problematic if you intend to belt it... hm.
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Laureon
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The only think I was worried about with bringing the piece up an octave is that the song would be too high for it to be believeable for Javert's role, but now that you mention it, I think it might be the best idea..
Enjolras would be fun though, "Do You Hear the People Sing?" is one of my favorites...
The auditions aren't until sometime in January, and the director hasn't confirmed yet even if he's going to go through with Les Mis, but I like thinking ahead about these kind of things. Thanks again for yor help everyone.
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The Very Angry Woman
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| Orestes Fasting wrote: | | Timmy_Wishes he was Quast wrote: | | NO NO NO!! Do not cast females in male parts! I hate seeing shows like that! |
Why not? It's a time-honored tradition, after all, and LM has stolen plenty of other time-honored traditions from the opera world. |
As someone who has seen a female LMSE Enjolras, I respectfully respond by vomiting.
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Orestes Fasting
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| The Very Angry Woman wrote: | | Orestes Fasting wrote: | | Timmy_Wishes he was Quast wrote: | | NO NO NO!! Do not cast females in male parts! I hate seeing shows like that! |
Why not? It's a time-honored tradition, after all, and LM has stolen plenty of other time-honored traditions from the opera world. |
As someone who has seen a female LMSE Enjolras, I respectfully respond by vomiting. |
Well, was she any good?
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Aimee
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Re: Broadway vs. School Production | Laureon wrote: | | After going to see the musical and buying the complete soundtrack, I can safely say that Les Mis is the best musical that I have yet to see... |
I like you already. 
| Orestes Fasting wrote: | | Or maybe I'm just biased because when I was Cherubino my britches were dead sexy. |
That's completely different though, Cherubino is written for a soprano and is never a man's role.
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Orestes Fasting
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Re: Broadway vs. School Production | Aimee wrote: | | Orestes Fasting wrote: | | Or maybe I'm just biased because when I was Cherubino my britches were dead sexy. |
That's completely different though, Cherubino is written for a soprano and is never a man's role. |
I was talking more about suspension of disbelief than who the parts were written for. And also being partly facetious.
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Laureon
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| Quote: | | I like you already. |
Reading my old post it sounds rather immature to fall in love with a musical after only seeing it once, but I have seen my fair share of musicals, and not that they weren't good, I just felt that Les Mis had this quality that I had never seen before, even in something as long running as Phantom of the Opera. Then again, at 16, I haven't had time to see a great number...
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Laureon
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Keep in mind that this isn't a Broadway production. While I can understand people having mixed feelings for females in male roles, we don't have alot to work with at our high school, so we're forced tp make do. In the Broadway production of Les Mis that I saw, the little boy that sings "Little People" took off "his" hat and showed the audience that he was actually a girl. I'm sure at that age it would be easier to pull off, but still...
Not that the end result isn't worth the while, but we don't have all of the resources when it comes to participants that some schools do... Last year in The Music Man, I was triple cast a Salesman, Wa Tan Yee Girl, and Chorus.
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Aimee
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| Laureon wrote: | | Quote: | | I like you already. |
Reading my old post it sounds rather immature to fall in love with a musical after only seeing it once, but I have seen my fair share of musicals, and not that they weren't good, I just felt that Les Mis had this quality that I had never seen before, even in something as long running as Phantom of the Opera. Then again, at 16, I haven't had time to see a great number... |
I saw it for the first time at about 27, I fell in love with it on the spot too. Age has nothing to do with good taste.
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Jordan
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Having seen some clips from a (former) member of this board's rather crap production which he's been posting at t'other site, I'd rather that schools weren't allowed to do it, frankly. 
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Laureon
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| Quote: | | Having seen some clips from a (former) member of this board's rather crap production which he's been posting at t'other site, I'd rather that schools weren't allowed to do it, frankly. |
Ouch, was it that bad? Then again, I guess I can see how a school could easily bring poor light to a show like Les Mis, as it demands fairly high standards to do it justice.
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The Very Angry Woman
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| Laureon wrote: | | Quote: | | Having seen some clips from a (former) member of this board's rather crap production which he's been posting at t'other site, I'd rather that schools weren't allowed to do it, frankly. |
Ouch, was it that bad? Then again, I guess I can see how a school could easily bring poor light to a show like Les Mis, as it demands fairly high standards to do it justice. |
Les Miz is an extremely difficult show to do, which means it's extremely easy to completely screw up -- I've seen two different groups do just that. The problem is that now everyone wants to do it, making it fodder for wreckage nationwide.
(And the female Enjolras I saw was good only in that she was pretty much the only cast member who could sing. Which isn't neccessarily a good thing.)
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The Very Angry Woman
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| Laureon wrote: | | While I can understand people having mixed feelings for females in male roles, we don't have alot to work with at our high school, so we're forced tp make do. |
Then pick another show. Consider your resources. You wouldn't do Ragtime at an all-white high school, would you?
| Quote: | | In the Broadway production of Les Mis that I saw, the little boy that sings "Little People" took off "his" hat and showed the audience that he was actually a girl. I'm sure at that age it would be easier to pull off, but still... |
That didn't happen very often, though, so consider yourself lucky. Only if the girls were tall enough to climb the barricade (per child labor laws) did they understudy Gavroche, and even then they rarely went on.
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FreddiesHalfMic
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| Timmy_Wishes he was Quast wrote: | | NO NO NO!! Do not cast females in male parts! I hate seeing shows like that! |
There's NOTHING wrong with females in male parts. A character is a CHARACTER, not a gender.
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The Very Angry Woman
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| FreddiesHalfMic wrote: | | Timmy_Wishes he was Quast wrote: | | NO NO NO!! Do not cast females in male parts! I hate seeing shows like that! |
There's NOTHING wrong with females in male parts. A character is a CHARACTER, not a gender. |
Of COURSE! Gender has nothing to do with ANYTHING!
I see the light now.
So. In that case, I'd love to see a female Song in M. Butterfly...
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Bill_Calhoun
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In that case, lets have an all-female cast for Rent. Or an all-male cast of Kiss Me Kate...
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Timmy_Wishes he was Quast
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I just wouldn't believe a female JVJ...the power of the male voice singing those notes in Bring Him Home is so much more than a woman. And visa versa, did you hear waht Micheal Ball did to I dreamed a dream?!
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FreddiesHalfMic
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| The Very Angry Woman wrote: | | FreddiesHalfMic wrote: | | Timmy_Wishes he was Quast wrote: | | NO NO NO!! Do not cast females in male parts! I hate seeing shows like that! |
There's NOTHING wrong with females in male parts. A character is a CHARACTER, not a gender. |
Of COURSE! Gender has nothing to do with ANYTHING!
I see the light now.
So. In that case, I'd love to see a female Song in M. Butterfly... |
I don't mean a female playing a part as female. If a female actress plays a male part as male, and they can hit the notes (of course), and they're believeable, then it's perfectly fine IMO. Then again, as currently playing LeFou in B&tB, I could be just a tad bit bias
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brizejellicle
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Last year my school did Les Mis as out musical. We too had trouble with getting enough guys for the male roles.
In the end the only male role that was palyed by a girl was Garvoche (an 7th grade alto...used actual children because we didn't have anyone short enough to play a child in high school).
Our Thenardier was played by a guy who doesn't have a great singing voice but is a great actor (especially for comedy-type roles...played Eugene in Grease and Moonface in Anything Goes)
Our Enjolras had to belt a bit on the high notes but did great for his first major singing role.
Marius, JVJ and Javert were all great at their parts.
Overall, the only character who couldn't sing was young Cosette (only got the part b/c she was the middle school music teacher's pet...no one in the cast could stand her).
This year our school is doing 2 musicals, they just did Anything Goes and in June they are during a new show called Cows (It is going to B-way or off B-way pro theater next year and our school is getting money for it cause they are going to be the 1st to do the show). The playwrite chose us after seeing our production of Les Mis.
About the editing of the show....alot of the Confrontation is cut out and some verses of other songs are shorten/cut. Little People is not in the show (just the short part of it). My school wouldn't let us sing Lovely Ladies but we had 6 whores {all seniors} on stage with 3 sailors (I was a chorus member and played a whore in the song. We were allowed to act but not sing. Most of the show is the same though.
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