Jordan
|
If you HAD to cut a song...What would it be and why?
Don't wuss out and say you wouldn't, um... my new employment law says that Les Mis runs 6 minutes over schedule or summat so you MUST cut something.
|
nicnikniki
|
If I absolutely HAD to, maybe "In My Life" because "A Heart Full Of Love" seems to pretty much repeat what was said in "In My Life". Or maybe "Red and Black" because although I think it's pretty good, it's a little too similar to "Do You Hear The People Sing?"
I'm also not a huge fan of "Dog Eat Dog" because although the Innkeeper is meant to be seedy and corrupt, this song tips him over into something worse. He goes from being an innkeeper who robs his clients, to someone who robs dead bodies which is pretty morbid.
|
Quique
|
Turning...Turning.
I love the song and personally, I think it adds a great deal to the show. But to everyone else, it wouldn't make a difference if it were cut and would affect the show much less, than if they were to cut any other song.
|
dramaqueen220222
|
Empty Chairs at Empty Tables. It annoys me.
|
Frank_Rind
|
| nicnikniki wrote: | | If I absolutely HAD to, maybe "In My Life" because "A Heart Full Of Love" seems to pretty much repeat what was said in "In My Life". |
Aaah! No! Cosette is already under-developed enough, we can't cut what little she has already.
Hmmm...I seem to remember some song after that street-urchin character delivers a letter. Something about "being alone"? That one doesn't seem particularly important or memorable. 
It pains me to say this, but 'Master of the House' is probably one of the most expendable numbers...you could put in the entire intro up to "Just one more or my old man is gonna do me in" then go into Valjean bringing little Cosette in. The story would make sense without it, although the character of Thenardier would be disadvantaged.
By that logic, "Do you hear the people sing" can be easily excised without drastically harming the story either. Same with "Turning" and, gulp, "Every Day". Maybe just the "Heart Full of Love" reprise at the end of Every Day.
However, being that most of the songs are very well-known and would likely be missed, I'd probably adhere to your new employment law but cutting parts of songs to shorten them rather than whole songs.  Even then I feel sick at the prospect of such butchery!
|
Eponine Girl
|
| dramaqueen220222 wrote: | | Empty Chairs at Empty Tables. It annoys me. |
I agree completely...I don't dig that song.
Sort of digressing from the topic, I think they should write a new solo for Marius and replace it, if there wouldn't be an uproar of people going "We want Empty chairs back!"
|
Mim
|
I think, like Quique, that I would cut Turning. I do like it but I think the plot and spirit of the show survives without it.
I'm curious as to why people don't like Empty Chairs and Empty Tables...?[/b]
|
Lesmiserables24601
|
Cut a full song? Jeez, that is a little rough. I think the best way to cut it by six minutes is to take out the:
First verse of Innkeeper's song
First verse of Dog eat Dog and possibly part of the orchestration beforehand.
Duet part of Jean valjean's confession
Master of the House...urghh all of it
Just my two cents i guess 
|
Emperor of the Fiends
|
| Lesmiserables24601 wrote: | Cut a full song? Jeez, that is a little rough. I think the best way to cut it by six minutes is to take out the:
First verse of Dog eat Dog and possibly part of the orchestration beforehand.
Just my two cents i guess |
You mean the music that plays in the sewer scene? While I am of the opinion that it should have been cut from the TAC (if they're all just standing around there's no point to including that portion and they ought to have made room for an actual scene), I'm not sure why it should be cut from the actual musical.
Me, I'd cut "Bring Him Home". And maybe "On My Own".
|
Lesmiserables24601
|
haha cut 'on my own'? I reckon that Cameron Mackintosh himself would probably send down his les miserables goon squad and kill whoever made that cut. But yeh youre right about cutting the orchestration in the TAC, bit ridiculous really. 'Bring Him Home' however is sort of integral to the story. I doubt it would be cut from the actual show. 
|
Eponine Girl
|
| Mim wrote: |
I'm curious as to why people don't like Empty Chairs and Empty Tables...?[/b] |
Because we think it is boring? I was never a fan of it. Peeps are always all "Oh, that's the most haunting song!"
And I'm all "Nah, it's really boring."
|
eponine_loves_marius
|
[quote="Eponine Girl"][quote="Mim"]
I'm curious as to why people don't like [i]Empty Chairs and Empty Tables[/i]...?[/b][/quote]
Because we think it is boring? I was never a fan of it. Peeps are always all "Oh, that's the most haunting song!"
And I'm all "Nah, it's really boring."[/quote]
I think it's boring too...I totally second that.
eponine_loves_marius
|
Lesmiserables24601
|
Argh, I hate Empty Chairs as well but hey you must keep in mind that the song would sound amazing to someone who hasn't heard it before. And also keep in mind, that it is so popular a song that there are two versions of it in the vocal score, Bb and A  Two times the monotony and wankiness of the song
|
Moci
|
Turning, is the only one that I'd consider expendable. That and the bit before MOTH, but it's mostly gone anyway.
|
Fantine
|
I'd cut On My Own. Quit the Eppie bopper fandom. This song can be missed. It's clear enough from AHFOL, Eponine's Errand, The Robbery and all het flirting that she loves Marius but he doesn't love her back. In fact, the whole of OMO is just a pitiful Eponine screaming for attention from the audience. Attention whore 
|
Lesmiserables24601
|
Haha....Attention whore! Attention whore! Quite right On my Own is a tad bit useless though it does sound pretty and is more than likely the best orchestrated song. I think it would be so cool if they made an actual port of the OFC to English where Fantine sang 'On my Own' and Eponine was basically non - existant
|
Aimee
|
My first thought was 'Turning' too though I'd feel sorry for the ladies chorus as it was put in to ballance the show out a bit seeing as its so male top heavy.
I can see why people might want to cut 'Dog Eat Dog' but it is vital to the story to see Thenardier sealing stuff in the sewers, so that it makes sense when he steals Marius's ring so I say no to that.
Cutting On My Own would be funny but is not possible if they want to keep the show running due to the out-cry here would be.
Cutting ECAET would be a shame and I love it, though maybe it could be edited? [If it had to be.]
So for me Turning it is.
|
Quique
|
GRRRRRR!!! | Fantine wrote: | | I'd cut On My Own. Quit the Eppie bopper fandom. This song can be missed. It's clear enough from AHFOL, Eponine's Errand, The Robbery and all het flirting that she loves Marius but he doesn't love her back. In fact, the whole of OMO is just a pitiful Eponine screaming for attention from the audience. Attention whore |
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! 
No, you didn't! 
Come here, I wish to show you something. 
*Springs cage upon Fantine and locks it tight! Evil, hysterical laughter.*
Muahahahahaha! HAHAHAHA!!! HAHAHAHA!!!!
!
OK, now that you're securely locked-up, grrrrrrr, let me say why cutting "On My Own" is RUBBISH! Grrrrrr. 
Without it, Eponine would be a shadow, a nothing, it would make the show stupid. There would be no depth, no character to play, her death would be a waste of time. "On My Own" gives her death a real sense of tragedy and meaning. It highlights the love between Cosette and Marius and makes it richer. It further highlights the evil nature of her parents, the Thenardiers. It fleshes her out and makes her story an eerie, forgotten presence for the rest of the show, until she shows-up at the "Finale." Even though Eponine never really knew Valjean, she comes to take him to salvation along with, of course, Fantine. It's as if Eponine is so grateful toward Valjean for saving Marius and making the union of Marius and Cosette possible and also as if she loves Marius so much, she wants him to be happy at all costs, even if the price is her life or another love, which makes "On My Own" a resignation, acceptance of reality and proof that Eponine is quite a trooper and no whiner. It's her last mournful cry before making peace with what IS.
And NO! You may NOT leave your cage, until I say so!
Grrrrrr, grrrrrr, grrrrrr, grrrrrr, grrrrrr.....*coma*
|
Eponine Girl
|
| Fantine wrote: | | I'd cut On My Own. Quit the Eppie bopper fandom. This song can be missed. It's clear enough from AHFOL, Eponine's Errand, The Robbery and all het flirting that she loves Marius but he doesn't love her back. In fact, the whole of OMO is just a pitiful Eponine screaming for attention from the audience. Attention whore |
I really like On My Own, who cares about the people who like it; the tune is good and that can't be said for 99% of musical solos.
|
javertsw
|
Yeah the plot could survive without 'On My Own', without 'Master of the House' etc... but thats not the point. The point of those songs is to give a more in depth view of the character... and to create some feeling in the show. Otherwise you might aswell just set the synopsis in the programme to music and sing that instead.
I would cut 'Beggars at the Feast', and just go straight to Valjean after Thenardier reveals the ring to Marius.
|
Emperor of the Fiends
|
I don't consider it really integral-it's just another solo, and the only one that consistently irritates me; I've heard Colm Wilkinson, Gary Morris, John Owen-Jones, Robert Marien, Anthony Warlow, Mandy Patinkin, Michael Crawford... I don't give a damn who sings it, really; it just annoys me without fail, even when I like the singer in question otherwise.
Edit-No, I take that back. Anthony Warlow's recording is tolerable. But I hate all the others.
|
Colle
|
Re: GRRRRRR!!! | Quique wrote: | | Fantine wrote: | | I'd cut On My Own. Quit the Eppie bopper fandom. This song can be missed. It's clear enough from AHFOL, Eponine's Errand, The Robbery and all het flirting that she loves Marius but he doesn't love her back. In fact, the whole of OMO is just a pitiful Eponine screaming for attention from the audience. Attention whore |
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
No, you didn't!
Come here, I wish to show you something.
*Springs cage upon Fantine and locks it tight! Evil, hysterical laughter.*
Muahahahahaha! HAHAHAHA!!! HAHAHAHA!!!!
!
OK, now that you're securely locked-up, grrrrrrr, let me say why cutting "On My Own" is RUBBISH! Grrrrrr.
Without it, Eponine would be a shadow, a nothing, it would make the show stupid. There would be no depth, no character to play, her death would be a waste of time. "On My Own" gives her death a real sense of tragedy and meaning. It highlights the love between Cosette and Marius and makes it richer. It further highlights the evil nature of her parents, the Thenardiers. It fleshes her out and makes her story an eerie, forgotten presence for the rest of the show, until she shows-up at the "Finale." Even though Eponine never really knew Valjean, she comes to take him to salvation along with, of course, Fantine. It's as if Eponine is so grateful toward Valjean for saving Marius and making the union of Marius and Cosette possible and also as if she loves Marius so much, she wants him to be happy at all costs, even if the price is her life or another love, which makes "On My Own" a resignation, acceptance of reality and proof that Eponine is quite a trooper and no whiner. It's her last mournful cry before making peace with what IS.
And NO! You may NOT leave your cage, until I say so!
Grrrrrr, grrrrrr, grrrrrr, grrrrrr, grrrrrr.....*coma*
|
Well said, for the most part, Quique about why "On My Own" is important.
Now to the question, it was a hard choice because all the songs I believe do add some depth to the story or characters. So my choice is based solely on the song I like the least: "Lovely Ladies."
|
Quique
|
Fast Forward...There, I already freed Fantine.
(Fantine, just messin' with ya. )
Anyway, I've always been bothered by the runaway cart scene. Am I the only one who finds it incredibly dull?
Even though it is faithful to the novel, I think it comes way too suddenly and is just too much drama packed heavily into only a few minutes along with "Lovely Ladies" and Fantine's arrest.
It's not so much the inclusion of the runaway cart scene, it's more the way it suddenly cuts into the drama, all that hoopla just to bring about Javert's memory of Valjean? Couldn't they be less intrusive about it? I guess they thought the show may be slowing down at that point and opted for an "exciting" moment with thrilling music to back-it-up. I've always thought it a rather cumbersome sequence placed in an already exciting, suspenseful moment of the show. But I guess that really was the best way they could go about it while still being faithful to the original source material.
That really is the only scene I've ever felt the urge to put in "fast forward," hehe.
|
Fantine
|
Thanks Quiqs, I was getting claustrophobic in there!
Dudes, relax, I wouldn't dream about cutting OMO. I was just messing around. I love the song and it is certainly a climax (for me at last) to live to. I pretty much love Eponine in the musical, and OMO is indeed a very good song. But think about it... I could be missed. IDAD on the other hand, can't. You would never learn about Fantine's history with Tholomyes. MOTH is important because it shows the Thenardiers wealth (well... Kind of) and quite happy life before they have to go to Paris.
I do agree that ALFOR would be rather pointless without OMO because Eponine would become a minor character without it.
Out of all the song I think we could deal without 'Turning.' I think that Empty Chairs is a beautiful song and shows how Marius is dealing with what happened and how he felt about his comrades. It is character development. Furthermore it shows how Cosette (cause without ECAET, Every Day wouldn't make much sense either) makes him go on with his life.
|
Emperor of the Fiends
|
| Fantine wrote: |
You would never learn about Fantine's history with Tholomyes.
|
Yes it's true there's a child, and the child is my daughter
And her father abandoned us, leaving us flat
Edit: I will also note that the backstory included in IDAD is distorted a bit. "He slept a summer by my side... but he was gone by autum came" is not accurate, when in the book she was with Tholomyes for at least four years. (Cosette was roughly three when Fantine left Paris. And you have to figure for the length of pregnancy in addition to that.)
|
NotoriousFunnt
|
| Lesmiserables24601 wrote: |
First verse of Dog eat Dog and possibly part of the orchestration beforehand.
|
First verse of Dog Eat Dog I agree with.
"Possibly part of the orchestration beforehand"? You say that? Them be fightin' words. *bares teeth*
Anyway, I'd probably cut Master of the House. Maybe keep in one verse or something, but for one thing I've never really cared much for that song...I usually skip it if I'm listening to the soundtrack...and while it's nice to see a Thenardier solo I really don't care for this song. It takes up space, just shows lots of partying you figure is already there. If you keep it, I'd say just the first verse because it shows Thenardier's shmuckness. But don't keep the whole song, it's a bit much. If I had to cut it, that is.
|
nicnikniki
|
Do you guys think Dog Eat Dog is necessary? I mean, like javertsw said, you can cut lots of songs because they're not integral to the plot - but while songs like "I Dreamed A Dream" and "On My Own" are pretty and sad, I think Dog Eat Dog is a bit gruesome and like I said before, it turns Thenardier from a bit of a rascal, to a pretty horrible character.
Also I don't think getting rid of "Do You Hear The People Sing" would be a good idea because it's so rousing - it's like their little war chant and I think it's a pretty well known-song out of Les Mis. And "Empty Chairs At Empty Tables" is one of those emotional songs about the after-effects of war and how sad it is, and it's something that really applies to all wars not just the French revolution, so I think people can relate to it.
|
Fantine
|
| Emperor of the Fiends wrote: | | Fantine wrote: |
You would never learn about Fantine's history with Tholomyes.
|
Yes it's true there's a child, and the child is my daughter
And her father abandoned us, leaving us flat |
Ah yes. So I guess IDAD and OMO could be cut.
The only thing is that you wouldn't see Fantine's beauty (since she takes off her bonnet during IDAD), but this could be solved during Lovely Ladies when she walks there without a bonnet in the first place.
|
nicnikniki
|
I would still love Les Mis even if OMO and IDAD weren't in it, but they're really pretty and they're the two main female sad songs, so cutting it would alter the mood slightly and make it less personal tragedy, more revolutionary... I don't know. Am I making sense?
|
Emperor of the Fiends
|
| nicnikniki wrote: | Do you guys think Dog Eat Dog is necessary? I mean, like javertsw said, you can cut lots of songs because they're not integral to the plot - but while songs like "I Dreamed A Dream" and "On My Own" are pretty and sad, I think Dog Eat Dog is a bit gruesome and like I said before, it turns Thenardier from a bit of a rascal, to a pretty horrible character.
Also I don't think getting rid of "Do You Hear The People Sing" would be a good idea because it's so rousing - it's like their little war chant and I think it's a pretty well known-song out of Les Mis. And "Empty Chairs At Empty Tables" is one of those emotional songs about the after-effects of war and how sad it is, and it's something that really applies to all wars not just the French revolution, so I think people can relate to it. |
But Thenardier *is* nasty; he's not really meant to be a bumbling, comical villain, and when it comes to characterization, if I had to cut either "Master of the House" or "Dog Eat Dog", I'd ax the former. "Dog Eat Dog" isn't totally necessary; but I don't think that scene should be scrapped; rather, it should be tweaked a bit to be more in line with the novel. As it is, they don't really give a reason for him to be down there. Robbing corpses? Well, it's not without precedent for him-but there is the little matter of the fact that all of the dead bodies are above ground.  (Oh, and Les Mis does not take place during the French Revolution, FYI.)
(Also, just to be clear-I was not arguing for IDAD to be scrapped; I think it's a good transition between the factory and the docks; but it's not necessary in terms of giving Fantine's backstory; that's already been taken care of.)
|
javertsw
|
For people who have read the book, and are devoted to the show, we would probaly rather see MOTH cut than Dog Eats Dog, for the reasons people have mentioned.
But you have to remember the majority of people who go and see Les Mis aren't big fans. Therefore MOTH is much more important as it adds comedy to the show, adds light relief and tones it down so it is more easy for a first time audience.
Without MOTH, it would just be drama to drama to drama which would make the show hard to take in for non-mizzes.
|
seein*stars
|
Bring Him Home. When I saw the show I was totally bored during that song, almost fell asleep, and it is not necessary for the plot.
|
Fantine
|
But it is! In BHH you learn that Valjean does care for the young man who stole his daughters heart and would do anything to save him from the barricades.
|
nicnikniki
|
But do we ever actually learn that Valjean DOESN'T like Marius to begin with? I mean there are no previous songs / dialogue that show that JVJ doesn't like Marius, so how does "Bring Him Home" disprove that? Or am I missing something?
|
LesMisForever
|
Hello
On the whole i share most of Enrique's and Javertsw's opinions.
I would cut "turning" for the reasons mentioned by Enrique.
(..and the cart)
I also would cut "Master of the house". This song is one of most unfaithful songs to the book as it makes audience like les Thenardiers, and it is also probably the longest song time wise, so you can cut it and still make the audience laugh.
I don't really like "Dog eats dog" as a song that much, but it is very important song, because it is the best reflection of Thenardier.
Making les Thenardiers lovable has always been my biggest problem with the musical adaptation of the book.
Another thing that could be cut as someone already mentioned the reprise of " A heart full of love".
But my original suggestion would be cutting few verses of the first scene.
Finally, i like to say that i am a peacful person, and hate confrontations but anyone who try to cut "Empty chairs at empty tables" will have to face me in a duel . I ABSOLUTELY ADORE that song!.
|
Emperor of the Fiends
|
| Fantine wrote: | | But it is! In BHH you learn that Valjean does care for the young man who stole his daughters heart and would do anything to save him from the barricades. |
Seconding what nicnikniki said: unlike in the book, there's never any suggestion that he dislikes Marius in the first place. So it's unnecessary.
|
Lesmiserables24601
|
UrghIf we are going to go into uselessness why not drop 'On my Own'? What does it tell us about Eponine' and Marius' relationship? That she will never have him? I think that is easily exposed through just about every song with her in it.
Master of the House is useful, just as Javertsw said as it stops the audience from slitting their wrists during the show; releases a bit on tension as well as showing the relationship between the Thenardier's - the only person that can mock Monsieur is Mamselle' and anyone else who does will end up dead behind the inn.
In closing, I just think Bring Him Home is useful in affirming Valjean's humility as well as the length's he is willing to take for the happiness of Cosette. In praying for his life, is he not really praying for the 'life' of Cosette?
Sorry about the rant there, please forgive me 
|
Moci
|
I'm a bit late to this, but 'Bring Him Home' has a point in the show, for me, because it's the first time that it is possible to really appreciate Valjean's character and truly comprehend it. Almost every other time Valjean appears before this, he's busy and there is plot moving along due to his decisions, which doesn't give the audience a time to focus on him, as a person.
'Bring Him Home' also completes the trio of songs for the three character who have religion motivating them in some way- Valjean with 'Bring Him Home', Javert and 'Stars' and 'Dog Eat Dog' for Thenardier, so that the audience can understand how their three different religious beliefs have brought them to three different positions in the story.
|
Quique
|
Bravo...! | Moci wrote: | | 'Bring Him Home' also completes the trio of songs for the three character who have religion motivating them in some way- Valjean with 'Bring Him Home', Javert and 'Stars' and 'Dog Eat Dog' for Thenardier, so that the audience can understand how their three different religious beliefs have brought them to three different positions in the story. |
That was brilliant. Bravo Moci.
|
Lesmiserables24601
|
Bravo! | Moci wrote: |
'Bring Him Home' also completes the trio of songs for the three character who have religion motivating them in some way- Valjean with 'Bring Him Home', Javert and 'Stars' and 'Dog Eat Dog' for Thenardier, so that the audience can understand how their three different religious beliefs have brought them to three different positions in the story. |
That is amazingly great. Ever think of ringing Mr Mackintosh for that elusive Dramaturge role he is offering?
|
Eponine Girl
|
I think the tune of BHH is real boring. That and Empty Chairs, and almost everything in every other musical.
|
Aimee
|
| Eponine Girl wrote: | | I think the tune of BHH is real boring. That and Empty Chairs, and almost everything in every other musical. |
lol POC, I do miss your comments.
|
Quique
|
Die... | Eponine Girl wrote: | | I think the tune of BHH is real boring. That and Empty Chairs, and almost everything in every other musical. |
WTF!!!
(Grabs shoulders, shakes him to and fro violently while scremin' n' screechin' upon a balcony)
!
(POC's blubber causes balcony to give way and they both fall over the railing...)
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
*die*
|
LesMisForever
|
Hello
Another of things that bugs me about Master of the House is the portrayal of Mme thenardiers.
Mme Thenardier wouldn't make such comments about her husband at all, because he was in total charge. Let me quote from the novel:
" A new visitor to the tavern, seeing Mme Thenardier for the first time invariably concluded that she was the real master of the house. It was a mistake. She was not even its mistress. Her husband was master and mistress both.............Thenardier was to her a unique superior being. She had the virtues of her failings; never would she have disagreed with her husband on any point of principle, and still less -the thing was unthinkable- would she have disputed any matter with him in public.
That mountain of sound and flesh could be moved by the puny despot's little finger
Now is this someone who would mock her husband in public???
"Master of the House" is first and foremost crowd pleaser. I don't deny that it used to make me laugh (Now raise a mere smile), but that doesn't change my opinion about it.
|
Quique
|
Perfect... | LesMisForever wrote: | Hello
Another of things that bugs me about Master of the House is the portrayal of Mme thenardiers.
Mme Thenardier wouldn't make such comments about her husband at all, because he was in total charge. Let me quote from the novel:
" A new visitor to the tavern, seeing Mme Thenardier for the first time invariably concluded that she was the real master of the house. It was a mistake. She was not even its mistress. Her husband was master and mistress both.............Thenardier was to her a unique superior being. She had the virtues of her failings; never would she have disagreed with her husband on any point of principle, and still less -the thing was unthinkable- would she have disputed any matter with him in public.
That mountain of sound and flesh could be moved by the puny despot's little finger
Now is this someone who would mock her husband in public???
"Master of the House" is first and foremost crowd pleaser. I don't deny that it used to make me laugh (Now raise a mere smile), but that doesn't change my opinion about it. |
Yeah, I never used to get annoyed at the way the Thenardiers were portrayed but it took several viewings later and a deeper, um...interest in the show, that made their scenes pretty irritating.
I honestly have no problem at all with the humor but I don't like it when they are over-the-top and clownish. I don't like them stealing the show and charming the audience too much, focus on the more important points goes to their antics, which is why I love David Benoit and Jennifer Butt's Thenardiers. They weren't too serious nor too clownish, they were "dark" and the little things they did weren't "HAHAHAHAHA!!!! " funny, they were, "He...he.....he... " funny and twisted, sometimes disturbing, though without casting a bummer over the show. They were just perfect.
|
Meliara
|
Turning. Without a doubt.
I have a hunch that it was a filler song to begin with. It would be stupid to have one solo right after another (Javert's Suicide straight to Empty Chairs...)
|
Paula
|
well, if you asked which song is disliked i would say 'dog eats dog'. As for a song to be cut, well, i don't think there is any necessity to discuss it. Actually there ARE something deleted from the original, right?
i don't think 'turning' should be cut. It is a transition for the revolution. After it all things seem to be quiet and return to normal. To some extent it is a boundary between revolutists' enthusiasm and people's attitudes, a boundary between mess and peace So it's like a turning point in Act 2.
i am surprised to see some suggest BHH and Empty Chairs and Empty Tables be cut. I love BHH. It shows Valjean's love is broad. Marius stoles his 'daugther' from him and becomes a 'spirit enemy' to Valjean. However, Valjean still blesses him and calls him 'son'. As for ECAET, Marius sings with regret. It is a heart for asking forgiveness.........
|
Aimee
|
| Paula wrote: | | well, if you asked which song is disliked i would say 'dog eats dog'. As for a song to be cut, well, i don't think there is any necessity to discuss it. |
It's not a necessity to discuss it no, but it's fun and that's what we do here; chat about Les Mis from as many different angles as we can. Join in, imagine you had to cut one song or the show would close. What would you cut to save it?
|
Megan the Phantom Girlie
|
And the almighty Megan descends with her scissors of doom and drastically shortens "Drink With Me" to Grantaire's verse and Marius'. And make it a capella.
|
Emperor of the Fiends
|
| Megan the Phantom Girlie wrote: | | And the almighty Megan descends with her scissors of doom and drastically shortens "Drink With Me" to Grantaire's verse and Marius'. And make it a capella. |
Acapella might be decent. But if we're cutting it, why preserve Marius's segment?
|
B3TA07
|
I think "On My Own" is the point where Eponine accepts Marius won't ever love her back. Before he met Cosette, he would flirt with her, leaving just that shadow of a chance. Then she realized she won't ever have him when he meets Cosette, and in delivering the letter from Marius to Cosette she accepts that she won't ever have him and begins to move on. And then she dies in his arms. Awww.
I'd cut:
"Come To Me"
"In My Life"
And...as much as I love the melody and lyrics, I think it would be just as fine to skip over "Red and Black" and go straight into "Do You Hear The People Sing".
|
Psyches
|
Drink With Me.
I hate that song. It annoys me and has no reason. So they all get pissed and go to sleep. Big whoop-de-doo. In Bring Him Home's intro you can figure out that they're asleep anyway. And Enjolras' comment to Grantaire "Put the bottle down," establishes that they're immaure kids gettin drunk n stoned at the barricade already so really the song has no point of existence.
Our production of Les Miserable cut In My Life. I was very upset about this. And when I voiced my opinion they threatened to cut ECAET instead so I was quickly swayed to the director's point of view as I was playing Marius and that was my favourite song.
|
The Very Angry Woman
|
| Psyches wrote: | Drink With Me.
I hate that song. It annoys me and has no reason. So they all get pissed and go to sleep. Big whoop-de-doo. |
But there is opportunity for slashy looks. It's nice, in the right hands. Such as those of Matt Clemens. Ahem.
(There actually is a far more serious reply I'd give to this, but it's not really worth it.)
|
The Very Angry Woman
|
| Meliara wrote: | Turning. Without a doubt.
I have a hunch that it was a filler song to begin with. It would be stupid to have one solo right after another (Javert's Suicide straight to Empty Chairs...) |
It was, actually. Not only the reason you gave, but also because Cameron Mackintosh didn't want to pay the women to do what he felt was so little. So he gave them another song.
|
Emperor of the Fiends
|
| B3TA07 wrote: | I think "On My Own" is the point where Eponine accepts Marius won't ever love her back. Before he met Cosette, he would flirt with her, leaving just that shadow of a chance. Then she realized she won't ever have him when he meets Cosette, and in delivering the letter from Marius to Cosette she accepts that she won't ever have him and begins to move on. And then she dies in his arms. Awww.
I'd cut:
"Come To Me"
"In My Life"
And...as much as I love the melody and lyrics, I think it would be just as fine to skip over "Red and Black" and go straight into "Do You Hear The People Sing". |
Those seem odd choices, in my opinion. You'd cut "Come to Me" and "Red and Black", which are actual scenes over bits like Do you hear the people sing? and On My Own, which are merely songs?
|
WeeblCat
|
"Bring Him Home".
It's a lovely song, but it bores me watching it being peformed.
|
javertsw
|
"Come To Me" is a very strange choice.
You don't care that the audience will never know that Fantine has died, and she will just be forgotten about until she comes back as a ghost... suddenly? Surely its too important to the story.
Also, people would be thinking "Why has Valjean gone to get this little girl?"
|
LesMisForever
|
Hello
I fully agree with Javertsw. "Come to me" combined with the "confrontation" (which would suffer immenesly without it) are very essential to the story development.
Personally i like "I dreamed a dream" (One of my top 3 songs) infinetly more than "Come to me" , but the way the show is done i would say cutting "I dreamed a dream" would be much less harmeful to the story.
|
Aimee
|
| Psyches wrote: | Drink With Me.
I hate that song. It annoys me and has no reason. So they all get pissed and go to sleep. Big whoop-de-doo. |
Hehehe whenever I go and see the show now I think of the matinee of the last day of the past cast when they sang 'Here's to pretty boys who went to our heads' It was funny.
|
Fantine
|
I don't understand why everyone hates Drink With Me... I personally love it!
|
Mim
|
I was wondering that myself Fantine. Bit of camaraderie at the barricade. I mean I can see how it could be cut and not harm the story but I'm surprised so many people dislike it in general...I really like ECAET too.
As for Red and Black being cut and leaving only Do You Hear The People Sing, I disagree. Red and Black is far more important to the story and whilst DYHTPS is stirring almost everything in it is expressed in Red and Black already.
- Mim
|
Psyches
|
| Fantine wrote: | | I don't understand why everyone hates Drink With Me... I personally love it! |
And you, personally, are obviously mentally inadequate.
|
B3TA07
|
| Emperor of the Fiends wrote: | | B3TA07 wrote: | I think "On My Own" is the point where Eponine accepts Marius won't ever love her back. Before he met Cosette, he would flirt with her, leaving just that shadow of a chance. Then she realized she won't ever have him when he meets Cosette, and in delivering the letter from Marius to Cosette she accepts that she won't ever have him and begins to move on. And then she dies in his arms. Awww.
I'd cut:
"Come To Me"
"In My Life"
And...as much as I love the melody and lyrics, I think it would be just as fine to skip over "Red and Black" and go straight into "Do You Hear The People Sing". |
Those seem odd choices, in my opinion. You'd cut "Come to Me" and "Red and Black", which are actual scenes over bits like Do you hear the people sing? and On My Own, which are merely songs? |
I already explained how I think "On My Own" is more than just a song. "Come to me" is annoying and could be done without. It annoys me. And you could go into "Do You Hear The People Sing?" just after Gavroche tells them General Lu-I-can't-spell-french-names has died.
|
Moci
|
| B3TA07 wrote: |
I already explained how I think "On My Own" is more than just a song. "Come to me" is annoying and could be done without. It annoys me. And you could go into "Do You Hear The People Sing?" just after Gavroche tells them General Lu-I-can't-spell-french-names has died. |
Lamarque.
You mean after Gavroche tells them, cutting 14 lines of Enjolras'? That is after the 'main' 'Red and Black' part. All it would mean would be cutting the part which explains why they believe 'the time is here' as opposed to 'the time is near'. Otherwise it's not explained why Lamarque's death makes a difference to anything and I don't see the point in cutting 14 lines which take up 54 seconds.
|
Emperor of the Fiends
|
| B3TA07 wrote: | | Emperor of the Fiends wrote: | | B3TA07 wrote: | I think "On My Own" is the point where Eponine accepts Marius won't ever love her back. Before he met Cosette, he would flirt with her, leaving just that shadow of a chance. Then she realized she won't ever have him when he meets Cosette, and in delivering the letter from Marius to Cosette she accepts that she won't ever have him and begins to move on. And then she dies in his arms. Awww.
I'd cut:
"Come To Me"
"In My Life"
And...as much as I love the melody and lyrics, I think it would be just as fine to skip over "Red and Black" and go straight into "Do You Hear The People Sing". |
Those seem odd choices, in my opinion. You'd cut "Come to Me" and "Red and Black", which are actual scenes over bits like Do you hear the people sing? and On My Own, which are merely songs? |
I already explained how I think "On My Own" is more than just a song. "Come to me" is annoying and could be done without. It annoys me. And you could go into "Do You Hear The People Sing?" just after Gavroche tells them General Lu-I-can't-spell-french-names has died. |
"Come to Me"... just, no. Sorry, but that's a larger part of the plot than the other. And I definitely wouldn't cut "Red and Black" either; the Amis get little enough characterization as it is.
|
Fantine
|
| Psyches wrote: | | Fantine wrote: | | I don't understand why everyone hates Drink With Me... I personally love it! |
And you, personally, are obviously mentally inadequate. |
Thank you!
|
Psyches
|
You're welcome hun, I got your back!
|
Lesmiserables24601
|
| Psyches wrote: | | Fantine wrote: | | I don't understand why everyone hates Drink With Me... I personally love it! |
And you, personally, are obviously mentally inadequate. |
Haha, bit harsh don't you think....?
'Drink with me' does have some use in establishing the environment of the barricade, much more than say, 'Empty Chair at Empty tables' ever does. Why does he have to sing about his friend being dead and never sitting down and getting drunk at a cafe again? It's useless when compared with 'Come to Me', which displays the promise Jean Valjean makes to protect Cosette.
'On my Own' is still is the musical because everyteen preteen girl and some scary guys have sung it. It's a cult song, much like Grease Lightnin' is too grease. If anything should be cut, it should be this.
Sorry about the rant
|
Aimee
|
| Psyches wrote: | | Fantine wrote: | | I don't understand why everyone hates Drink With Me... I personally love it! |
And you, personally, are obviously mentally inadequate. |
There's no need for that Psyches, thank you.
|
javertsw
|
| Lesmiserables24601 wrote: |
'On my Own' is still is the musical because everyteen preteen girl and some scary guys have sung it. |
Whoah... are you suggesting that On My Own is only in the show because teenage girls like it, and it if teenage girls didn't like it, it would be removed?
And I doubt the writers of the musical said: "We'll write On My Own because it will be great for teenage girls!"
The writers did romanticise (spelling?) Eponine's character for the audience... but I wouldn't go as far as saying they wrote the song just to make a cult of Eppie Fans.
We need Quique to explain why On My Own is good, again.
|
LesMisForever
|
Hello
Regardless of the importance of "On my Own", it is very beautiful song, with one of the best tunes in "Les Miserables".
I think "On my Own" has more to offer than just unrequited love.
|
Psyches
|
On my own rocks.
Anyone who dislikes it can leave my site now.
|
Quique
|
Ahhhhh.....purdy.The way I see it, every song in the show has a lot more to offer than what most people think. Those who sum any of the songs up as a mere "pop" ballad or "boring" company number, is obviously a newbie and hasn't gotten too deep, underneath the surface of the material. Not that there's anything wrong with being a newbie, but if you are, realize some of your opinions may be written-off as rubbish. Think about what you're going to say, cause there are Les Mis freaks present here, like me, heehee!
J/K, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I guess, no matter how stupid, ha!
I LOVE Drink With Me. The whole barricade incident would lack so much without it. Also, I always talk about the orchestrations to "On My Own," but I'd like to also point out other songs that have orchestrations that, by themselves, have moved me tremendously.
- Bring Him Home: May seem like an obvious choice, but have you really listened carefully to the strings? Most everyone notices the harp, but the strings are just soooo beautifully sentimental and so fitting for the moment.
- Empty Chairs at Empty Tables: Boy, does this song squeeze the tears out of me! The way I interpret it, the strings are Marius' emotions. They take so many ups and downs and at times even sound hectic and harsh, only to soften to a harmonic hymn.
- A Heart Full of Love: God, I LOVE that oboe heard during Eponine's line, "Why regret what could not be?" It's also heard before that but it's most noticable and more effective during her line. And of course, the strings. This show demands the use of REAL strings! Screw "Sinfonia"!
GRRRRRR!
|
Fantine
|
| Psyches wrote: | On my own rocks.
Anyone who dislikes it can leave my site now. |
Are you the new Evan or something? It's boring as hell.
|
javertsw
|
| LesMisForever wrote: | Hello
Regardless of the importance of "On my Own", it is very beautiful song, with one of the best tunes in "Les Miserables".
I think "On my Own" has more to offer than just unrequited love. |
Exactly.
Thinking its just a crowd pleaser is on the same level as thinking its a cute song about how Eponine loves Marius. (I hope people understand what I mean by that... its kind of hard to describe.)
Quique- as I was reading your post I was listening to 'A Heart Full of Love' and I heard the oboe you mentioned.
I agree about the orchestrations. Everytime I listen to the OLC version of Stars, I hear something different in the orchestra. Its wonderful. That and 'Valjean on Parole' are my favourite orchestrations in the show.
|
Emperor of the Fiends
|
| javertsw wrote: |
I agree about the orchestrations. Everytime I listen to the OLC version of Stars, I hear something different in the orchestra. Its wonderful. That and 'Valjean on Parole' are my favourite orchestrations in the show. |
Every time I listen to any part of the OLC, I hear something different in the orchestra. Let's just say it's rather hard to forget it's from the 80s while listening to that recording.
|
Eponine-09
|
Empty Chairs and Empty TablesI LOVE Empty chairs and empty tables! Pah! There's not really a song that I don't like... Stars actually is my least favourite, I have no idea why. I still like it... just not as much as the others.
|
Colle
|
Eponine-09, welcome to the board! I see you are fairly new. I am curious to know, who are the Marius and Eponine in the photo that is under your username when you post?
|
Moci
|
| Colle wrote: | | Who are the Marius and Eponine in the photo that is under your username when you post? |
Hadley Fraser and Sophia Ragavelas.
Eponine-09, I find your avatar a bit big. Would you be able to make it a bit smaller? Thanks.
|
The Very Angry Woman
|
Re: Empty Chairs and Empty Tables | Eponine-09 wrote: | | I LOVE Empty chairs and empty tables! Pah! There's not really a song that I don't like... Stars actually is my least favourite, I have no idea why. I still like it... just not as much as the others. |
Your avatar is taking up space that could house a goat to feed a poor family in Sudan.
Please, think of the children.
|
Colle
|
| Moci wrote: |
Hadley Fraser and Sophia Ragavelas.
|
Thank you Moci! I didn't recongize Sophia at first because in all the pictures I have seen of her as Eponine her hair is curly.
|
olly
|
Does anyone any have any idea why Stars, in the OLC version, Allam never sings the bit at the end where it goes up high, whereas the TAC, CSR and OBC do - its obviously been orcastrated differently, I don't know why because that's one I favorite bits of the song (although all of it is fantastic!):
Lord, let me find him
that I may see him
safe behind Bars!
I will never rest til Then!
This I swear
This I swear by
the Stars!
Thanks
Olly
|
Aimee
|
That's how the song originally finished.
At some point [I don't know when, possibly when they moved to The Palace Theatre] they made several changes and the new ending for Stars was put in. I too prefer the uplifting end to the lower key 'Keeping watch in the night.' It's more rousing but perhaps less thoughtful.
|
olly
|
Thanks, thats great to know
so they must have changed it in the last 5, 6 years?
|
The Very Angry Woman
|
The show went through major changes in 1997 and 2000.
No, I won't get into them again...
|
Kayla Nicole
|
I would eliminate Master of The House. It annoys me to no end.
|
Sairin
|
| olly wrote: | Thanks, thats great to know
so they must have changed it in the last 5, 6 years? |
OBC recording was in 1987, so no.
|
javertsw
|
I prefer the original ending too Stars... I find the current one too dramatic. The climax of the song I feel should be 'And so it must be, for so it is written' etc.
I don't think Javert needs to shout. In Stars he is musing to himself.
|
olly
|
I perhaps agree with the fact that Javert should not be belting those notes - perhaps not suiting his character. However, in musical terms, I feel the revised version is far better
|
