Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| Megan the Phantom Girlie |
Les Miserables and Harry Potter (SPOILERS)I reread Half Blood Prince this week, and I suddenly noticed a lot of similarities between Voldemort's mother Merope and both Eponine and Fantine.(I AM WARNING YOU- DO NOT READ PAST HERE IF YOU WANT THE BOOK TO BE A SURPRISE!) This is the mugglenet biography of Merope: Merope Gaunt was born around 1907 and endured a very unpleasant first 18 years of her life. Regarded as unworthy by her father and brother, and with no mother to look out for her, she was treated as little more than a slave by her family. She was treated with the utmost contempt and was made to carry out all manner of household chores for Marvolo and Morfin, whilst they did little more than nail snakes to the door and foster their hatred for Muggles and mudbloods. She was frequently both verbally and physically abused by Marvolo, who seemed to regard screaming at her and hitting her as perfectly normal parts of everyday life. As a result, but the age of 18 she was totally downtrodden, miserable and defeated. The one source of hope she had in her life was a young handsome Muggle by the name of Tom Riddle who would pass by their hovel on occasions - she would stare at him as he went past and dream of what life could have been like if things had been different. When Morfin found out about her infatuation he hexed Riddle and then told Marvolo about his daughter's secret crush. Marvolo was infuriated that his own daughter was looking at a Muggle and attacked her. Luckily for her, Bob Ogden from the Magical Law Enforcement Squad was visiting at the time in connection with the hexing of Riddle and he defended her, with the result that he was attacked himself. When Ogden summoned reinforcements, both Marvolo and Morfin were arrested and sentenced to time in Azkaban. Suddenly free of her oppressors, Merope hatched a plan to escape from her miserable existence. She prepared a Love Potion, which she managed to get Riddle to drink, and soon enough the effects kicked in. Under the influence of the potion Riddle fell in love with her, and the two ran away together, much to the consternation of the villagers of Little Hangleton. It is, after all, not every day that the squire's son runs off with the mad tramp's daughter. They were quickly married, with Merope keeping up a steady supply of the Potion, and soon she was pregnant. It was at this time, however, that she made her greatest mistake. Unhappy with a love based on magic and deception, she ceased to administer the potion, reasoning that Riddle would have fallen in love with her for real by this time. Sadly for her, nothing could have been further from the truth. Riddle was gone in an instant and returned to his parent's manor house, complaining of having been hoodwinked. Merope was left pregnant and alone with her dreams in tatters. It is likely that at this time Merope, disgusted at her entire life, swore never to use magic again. Where she went is not known, but just before Christmas 1926 she turned up at Borgin and Burkes in Knockturn Alley, heavily pregnant, desperate for money, and trying to sell the Gaunt family heirloom of Slytherin's locket. Burke gave her 10 Galleons for it and she disappeared again, turning up next on the doorstep of an orphanage on New Year's Eve. She gave birth to a son within an hour of her arrival, and within another hour was dead herself. She lived long enough to name her child Tom Marvolo Riddle, but for Merope Gaunt, the one hope she had ever had of a happy life had gone, and there was nothing left. Unwilling to raise her own wand to save herself, she allowed herself to die. Basically, her story starts as Eponine but ends as Fantine. I wonder if JK Rowling intended this, as the character of Sirius Black (a compassionate convict) bears some resemblance to Valjean. |
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| Orestes Fasting |
A compassionate convict appointed guardian to an orphan in an abusive foster home, at that. Hmmm. |
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| Meliara |
Thats so cool! Two of my favorite things, combined into one. Whoot! | ||||
| Emperor of the Fiends |
Personally, I tend to compare him more to Lupin. | ||||
| Moci |
Re: Les Miserables and Harry Potter (SPOILERS)
I would seriously doubt it. For one thing, I wouldn't compare her to Fantine. Fantine had no option about dying and held on with life until she knew that her daughter would be safe. Merope in Harry Potter had the chance to save herself, but wouldn't, something which Fantine would probably have done IMO, had she had the ability. Although Eppieboppers might tell you that they are similar, as Lord Voldemort and Cosette bear similar traits. 
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| NotoriousFunnt |
Hmm, of course she's not entirely like Fantine, but I too noticed the similarities. It isn't going to be entirely the same because they are different characters in different universes. But Merope did fall for Tom and he did abandon her when she was with child. She also later sold her locket for money. Their situations aren't exactly the same, but they do have similarities. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. | ||||
| EponineGiry |
Did anyone notice the young Cosette bit? Treated like a slave for the first several years of her life but fantasizes about a better life. Then a kind man comes, pities her and rescues her. Only thing is, after Morfin and Marvolo are in Azkaban, Ogden didn't make sure Merope was provided for. | ||||
| Desperado |
Sounds more like a scary version of Cinderella to me. | ||||
| The Very Angry Woman |
Eh. All works of fiction have some similarities if you look hard enough. It's definitely not overt, in my eyes, between Harry Potter and Les Miz. | ||||
| mizzie |
Neat observation. Still, as TVAW says, you can find similarities anywhere.
Now, as a completely unrelated observation, I'd just like to say that almost every Les Mis�rables fan I know is also a Harry Potter. Not just on this site, but everywhere around me. Maybe there's just something in the water where I live. Okay. I threadjacked. Back to the ranch, everybody! |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
If that's the case, it is where I live, too. Most of the Les Miz fans I know at least follow Harry Potter, if they don't consider themselves fans. |
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| Aphrodite |
I consider myself far more of a mizzie than a Harry Potter fan.
I like Harry Potter, but haven't gotten around to starting even the fifth book; much less seeing the fourth movie at midnight when it came out. Come to think, I'm probably in the minority since most of my theatre friends are definately HP afficianados (sp) |
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| NotoriousFunnt |
Eh, the 5th book is okay. My friend is super obsessed with Harry Potter and gets me into it a lot. The 5th book didn't grab me at all though, it was fanfictioney and everyone was OOC a whole lot. The 6th book was awesome though, so much better. | ||||
| Orestes Fasting |
Actually, it seems to me that a significant percentage of fans in every fandom are either obsessive fans of Harry Potter or used to be. HP is just so widespread that it's quite unusual, within fan communities at least, to find someone who's never been sucked in by it. ...and me, I'm guilty as charged. Spent four friggin' years fapping away with the other Potter fans before I lost interest. |
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| Larryboy |
I was listening to the CSR the other day and noticed a similarity between Dumbledore and Valjean. Dumbledore doesn't tell Harry the truth about his scar to protect him from the horrible truth (which i won't write in case i get told off for spoilering) and Valjean doesn't tell Cosette about his past because he thinks she will be hurt by it.
anyway just my 2c. which probably no one is interested in anyway. ah well 
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| Mim |
I think I'm with The Very Angry Woman on this one.
That makes no sense. JKR created them and therefore anything she writes in terms of characterisation is inherantly in character. You can dislike characterisation and development but it can't be OOC if JKR is writing it. - Mim |
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| Sairin |
It can if she completely ignores the character she's set up over the last four books (and will write in the sixth) and goes totally off the wall for no real reason. Harry of OOTP was, in my opinion, not the same character she'd spent so long creating, and a lot of the things he did were, in my eyes, out of character. |
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| olly |
I'm not sure - the 5th was probably my favorite; there was so much more going on at school with Dolores Umbridge (she was a brilliantly loathsome character - gave so much to the book). I don't think Harry was out of character - what made him to be? Whereas, in the 6th (which, may I state before hand, I loved), I felt there wasn't much action at school. Sure he had the discover the horcruxes, however not much other inticing stuff. However, by the end it was un-put-downable! Yes, I know that it was inherently important to the plot (what with the history of Riddle), but I feel she could have made more "adventurous" things going on. I mean compare it to the battle in the Dep. of Mysteries in the 5th! That was great! | ||||
| Mim |
Well I suppose you could say that, in your opinion, the characters were badly drawn or inconsistent but by definition they are still IC as JKR is their creator. | ||||
| Orestes Fasting |
I'm personally of the opinion that no action in and of itself is OOC, it's all in how well the author can justify it and make us believe Character X would do Y. In the case of OotP, I can understand the complaints that Harry was OOC, because he was acting differently than he might have a year or two ago, but I think GoF, especially the end, set that up. The tournament and the events in the graveyard changed him, and with new hormones added into the mix, I find it believeable that his anger and pride would flare up a bit.
Edit: And I do believe that if the creator of a character has that character act radically differently for no conceivable reason, it's OOC. I just don't think the fifth book was an example of that. |
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| mizzie |
Well, JKR also says that she puts a lot of herself into Harry, and tends to have similar views and decisions as he does. Does this make Harry a Gary Stu? | ||||
| Eponine243 |
I also noticed that pre-hogwarts Harry and young Cosette are alot alike | ||||
| EponineMNFF |
Well this is my kind of thread! My two absolute favorite fandoms! <3
It's weird that you say that becuase I was just rereading that chapter a few days ago and I was like "Merope = Eponine a little bit. Weeeeird." I've actually seen a banner for a Merope fanfic where somebody used one of the Eponines in costume as the model. I was amused. ^^ I do think she's more similar to Eponine than Fantine, though. Selling the locket is kind of a cool similarity between Fantine and Merope. I think an extraordinary amount of books start with abused little children (Jane Eyre pops into mind immediately.) |
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| NotoriousFunnt |
Wow I remember this thread  from long time ago. And I posted in it. o_O
I'm not officially in the HP fandom anymore but I did spend a fair bit of time in it, just like...well, practically everyone I met XD Now that I think more of it, I do see the connections between Merope and Eponine as well. She just reminded me more of Fantine on the outset and still does. I have to say, though, when I saw the posters for the PoA movie and saw Sirius, he looked SO much like Valjean that it creeped me out a bit. Even more so in the movie. |
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| EponineMNFF |
I almost wrote a Harry Potter fanfic where Sirius had the same experience as Valjean. And instead of an uprising, it would have been the final battle.
*SHAME* |
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| Eponine93 |
Well, I almost wrote a Harry Potter songfic to "I Dreamed A Dream." Thank god I gave up fanfic though; even though I had fun writing it, my actual real writing suffered. After my bout with HP fanfic I'll never write fanfic again. It took over my life... I would spend so much time freaking out over a bad review and thinking about my stories, I forgot about my real fiction.
Anyway, it's not surprising that there are many cross-over Les Mis and Harry Potter fans. There are a lot of similarities between Les Mis and Harry Potter. They both have similar themes about death and love, similar characters such as Sirius and Valjean, Dumbledore and Valjean, Lily and Fantine (both died to save their child) and Cosette and Harry. To an extent, I'd say Enjolras and Hermione have a few character similarities- they're both extremely smart and passionate about their causes (Enjolras with his uprising, Hermione with SPEW as well as fighting Voldemort.) Les Mis and Harry Potter both are immense books (in both page numbers and importance) and they both have immense internet followings. Obviously, there are a lot of people involved in both fandoms. For those of us who are no longer in the HP fandom, are you guys still excited about the book and movie releases this summer? I'm not as nearly obsessed with HP as I used to be, but I'm still going to see the movie opening night and lining up at midnight to get the book. I'm a bit worried about seeing the 5th movie, because I'm afraid the movie producers will destroy my favorite book, but that's nothing compared to my feelings about the book coming out. HP got me through the toughest times in my life, and I practically grew up with him. I can't believe it's almost over. |
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| Eponine93 |
Double post, but my teeth hurt so I don't care.
For everyone who saw the movie... was it me, or when Harry and Mr. Weasley entered the Atrium at the Ministry the first time did the background music sound suspicially like "One Day More"? |
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| NotoriousFunnt |
I'm going tomorrow so I'll let you know.
And I admit, with my head held down in shame, that when OotP the book was released, my best friend and I wrote a songfic to "Empty Chairs at Empty Tables". *is ashamed* We both still write fic, though I refuse to write in the HP fandom. I don't know why...I think it's because so many people do that I don't feel the need to contribute. Plus I'm not really super into the fandom anymore. I think I kinda burned out on it with all the hype that went up surrounding it. Also because I've read plenty of fantasy that was just as good if not better than HP, and no one pays any attention to those authors or goes all ZOMG!! when a new book comes out. *shrug* I am still going to see the move and I'm curious at how they'll do it, since this is my least favorite book yet has a lot of scenes with my favorite character, Sirius. I am also going to be getting the 7th book at midnight, but I'm doing that just as a sort of tribute to how obsessed I used to be I'll probably just go and sit in the back, waiting until midnight, reading a random book and writing some Myst fanfiction. But I'll be there anyway, just 'cause it's the last chance I'll ever have. And it feels extremely weird that it's going to be over, that's for sure o_O
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| SimDaDim |
Eponine93, I agree! I have seen the movie this evening, and i noticed it at once. Totaly the same theme, the three- or four falling chord-notes are just the same. I am checking it up now against the filmmusic-CD. Will be back when i find it.
EDIT: I have found it. In the song called "The ministry of music" about 1:10, the theme comes. I will cut out the short sequense and paste a link. |
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| Eponine93 |
I'm pretty sure it was exact, if not darn close... my sister, my mom, and my mom's friend all noticed it. | ||||
| SimDaDim |
Here is the clip from the HP movie music.
Here is the theme from Les Misserable. Totaly the same theme! EDIT: Acctualy, it is the same theme, played a half note lower. In les miss. it is the notes A, F#, E, C#, and in HP it is Ab, F, Eb, C
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| NotoriousFunnt |
Yeah I went today and when I heard that I went omg that's the music from Les Mis! and my friend started cracking up and said she expected me to sing "ONE DAY MORE!" in the middle of the theatre. But that was...unexpected o_O Can't believe it's the same.
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| eponine5 |
Well that will cheer me up when I see it today... even if half the cinema will think I've gone insane 
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| Eponine93 |
I'm rereading all the HP books so I'll be thoroughly in a Harry mood when I get the new book on Friday night, and I couldn't help but notice book!Eponine was a lot like Moaning Myrtle. Obviously, there are some differences (for example, Eponine wasn't dead and didn't live in an S-bend) but when you get over the basics of Myrtle, they're very much alike. Myrtle is one of the most layered characters in HP; they'res the basic layer of a seriously depressed overly-sensitive ghost, and then they'res the layer that's still a teenage girl who's in love with Harry Potter and is always rambling. Like Eponine and Marius, she and Harry aren't particurally close but through almost stalking him, she manages to help him out. Both Eponine and Myrtle are ramblish, a bit insane, and definitely don't know how to socially interact well.
Am I reading too deep into this? Everytime Myrtle says anything (particuarally in GoF) I'm reminded of Eponine's manner of speech. |
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| Inspector_Javert |
What about Javert and Snape?
There are similarities... terrible childhood, obsession, hating convicts (Sirius/Valjean), being cold and passionate at the same time... No happiness in their whole life... Liking dark clothes 
Being dead inside. Saving the hero (Snape saves Harry when Quirrell tries to jinx him, Javert saves (unknowingly) Valjean at the Gorbeau scene). |
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| Orestes Fasting |
Dude, stop dragging up old threads. Just stop. | ||||
| Quique |
Ditto. |