Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| She's_My_Sister |
Nick Jonas joins Les Mis!Is anyone else crying right now? I don't even know the show that well, but I know he'll ruin it. Poor musical theatre...
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| Eppie-Sue |
I don't think anyone here is truly upset over the fact that it's Nick Jonas. Especially as, at least, he has musical theatre (and even Les Mis) history. What he'll do with remains to be seen, but I don't see any reason why he should be worse than any other performer they could have gotten for Marius, famous or not. The whole stunt casting issue has been addressed in three other topics already, in relation to the context - the London Cast and the concert. If anything, that's what ruining Les Mis. Not some Jonas brother, who is probably delighted to get this chance handed to him by Cameron Mackintosh and who, I'm sure, has no intentions to "ruin" Les Mis. | ||||
| She's_My_Sister |
I totally see where you're coming from, but I just don't think Nick Jonas is an amazing singer or actor, though I will concede that he can carry a tune. | ||||
| Eppie-Sue |
Let me sum this up:
You're not actually a fan of Les Mis�rables. You're aware that Nick Jonas can, indeed, sing. Then why open a new thread just about that? Why are you "crying"? Why say that you "know" he is going ruin Les Mis? Why judge him before you've seen him? I can't believe I'm defending him, but this thread is completely unnecessary. When I saw the title I was expecting a fangirly "OMG SQUEE HE'LL BE THE BEST MARIUS EVER", and I don't know what's worse. |
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| She's_My_Sister |
Okay. I just got served. I'm going to try and bow out of this as gracefully as I can. | ||||
| SHARDIE |
you'll be suprised if you go watch him.
thats all i'm gonna say.. |
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| Violet |
It's OK. You are entitled to your opinion, and the discussion in the other threads has got so wide ranging, that unless you are on here all the time, you'll struggle to keep up. And not being here all the time doesn't mean you aren't entitled to take an interest in the show and care about casting.
From what I know of the Jonas Brothers, they are adequate, but not great singers. I am presuming that like many of their Disney peers it is all about personality, and hopefully he's a decent actor, although it will take a great deal of acting skill to make up for him being so young. I don't blame the lad himself, but I was hoping for someone a bit more impressive if we are going to have stunt casting, and given the brevity of the contract, there's no denying that it is a stunt. He could be very good, but no matter how good he could be, a three week contract is a stunt, and I think if you are going to stunt cast, you should get someone who doesn't just appeal to fans of Hannah Montanna. |
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| Eppie-Sue |
I thought it was alright to assume that this thread was not about Les Mis�rables or casting, but solely about (criticising) Nick Jonas. And this seems to have been true. Admittedly, the London thread - difficult to find your way through that one. There is, however, a thread for the new cast which isn't very long at all. There is a thread about the concert in which Nick Jonas comes up on the last two pages. So why a fourth thread to discuss this? | ||||
| Violet |
There probably wasn't any need for a new thread, but there's no excuse for telling someone that they aren't allowed an opinion because they aren't a big enough fan of the show and that different opinions aren't allowed anyway, because everyone who counts has already discussed it, and formed the correct opinion.
Personally, I'd be glad if the other threads weren't clogged up with one casting decision, so it could be a good thing for people to express their views here, but by the look of things, there is a correct opinion, that has already been stated, so the rest of us shouldn't be saying anything anyway. 
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| Eppie-Sue |
This is quite amusing, actually.
I don't think I ever said anything about not being entitled to an opinion or said there was a general consensus. ETA: And they said that they didn't actually know much about the show. Maybe it's a strange thought to some, but normally I'd expect people to be enough of a fan to know a show well before opening a thread criticising a performer by stating he'd "ruin" the show. Why do I constantly have to defend every single post I make in any thread against everyone on this board? |
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| Orestes Fasting |
You seriously don't see the dismissiveness and condescension? The bolded parts are exactly the sort of stuff that makes it look like you're trying to boss people around and dictate opinions. I know it's not what you mean to do, but it's how it comes across and it makes people uncomfortable. |
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| Eppie-Sue |
No. I don't see it. I'm not as aware of myself as you all are, because apparently my posts are the only posts on here that are aggressive and arrogant, and I'm the only one here who is constantly defending herself.
I have merely pointed out that the idea behind this, stunt casting, has been discussed in three topics. Then I have pointed out that one person can hardly ruin a show. And then I have summed up what was stated in the first thread, namely that She's My Sister is not a fan of Les Mis. The actually refers to the first post saying "I don't even know the show that well". Then I asked why there is such an uproar about one person being cast (about the person, not about the fact that it's stunt casting) when there is absolutely no foundation for it. I'm giving up, I can't seem to do any of this right and no matter where I post and what I post, everyone is always scrutinising it. Everyone else who would have freaked out stating they were crying, stating he's going to ruin this, would have gotten an irritated reaction. It has happened on here before. But seeing as it's me who does it, it's condescending, arrogant and dismissive. All the ---- time. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
Opinions are fine. If they're educated. |
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| Wandering Ranger |
some advice you ought to heed Very Angry Woman.
For what its worth I'd just like to pop in and defend Eppie-Sue if I may for two reasons. First off, when you're new to a board it is a good idea to look around it first before posting. Had the OP done this they would have seen the Nick Jonas discussion and joined in there. Therefore Eppie-Sue was perfectly right to say this was an unnecessary thread to make. Second of all, the OP was being a little daft saying they were crying and that he would ruin Les Mis before they had even seen him. Therefore, all Eppie-Sue did was to point that out in a clear and definite manner. Just because she didn't sugar coat it and dance around the obvious does not mean she was condescending or out of order. |
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| Violet |
The thing is, you aren't the only one defending themselves. You just think you are because you don't realise how your posts read to others. I'm sure you don't mean to be aggressive, or to be closed off to points of view from less worthy fans, but unfortunately that's how it comes across a lot of the time. Although if we were to be pedantic, the person starting this post opted to leave the thread and this section of the forum altogether rather than even try to defend themselves. I think that says a lot for itself. |
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| Orestes Fasting |
I'm going to be brutally honest here and say that to a certain extent, it's true: you have a pattern of making these sorts of overbearing posts, and each one in and of itself might not be awful but as part of a pattern they are making people uncomfortable. And the other thing is that whenever someone tries to point it out, you defend either your opinions (which you have a perfect right to, but they aren't what's at issue here) or the specific circumstances of the post that set it off, without addressing the overall pattern or even the overall tone of the post.
The thing is that when people point it out, it's not to be mean or to demand defenses and justifications, it's a request that you pay attention to the way your posts come across and try to tone it down. I'm not talking about belladonnadarling or the WOS people who think we're all weirdos who wear our underpants on our heads, I'm pretty sure they're just in it to be nasty and look down on fans who are "too obsessive" and they can go soak their heads. I'm talking about the people who like you and respect you and genuinely want to participate on this board, and find it difficult when they're getting shot down left and right. Basically, nobody's asking for a detailed explanation of why thus-and-such wasn't REALLY condescending, they're giving you a heads-up that you're coming across that way, and asking for you to back up a step or two and try not to police other people's posts or lay down your opinions of what's good for the show as law. And, so as not to become the world's most massive hypocrite, I am not going to meddle in this issue anymore unless asked for clarifications, because some people have brought it to my attention that I barely post here anymore except to play unofficial mod when I shouldn't. And I'm sorry about that. I honestly barely realized the not-posting thing at first because I'm still active on other forums, and, well, policing is a bad habit of mine too. So I'm going to shut my mouth before I dig myself deeper, I just wanted to try to explain. - Orestes, who bears no ill will and requests to be smacked on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper next time she starts policing behavior on a board she doesn't mod |
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| Quique |
Nonsense, Orestes!
I think you'd be massively annoying if you not only policed people's behavior but also spewed a bunch of hot air at the same time. XD But you are very sensible and I'm sure that's exactly what people think of your posts. I know I do. =) You are anything but annoying. I don't find Eppie-Sue to be annoying either but I agree that her posts do often times have a "your opinion is wrong" or "you don't know enough" feel to them. And I'm not saying this to avoid getting on anyone's bad side, I am sincere in saying that I don't believe it's her intention to come off that way, which is where the slight discomfort comes from. There's this unrelenting tendency to explain herself while others would have probably agreed to disagree a long time ago. I think that tendency to explain is easily perceived as aggression and, in a way, as stubborn in nature. I think she means nothing more by it than what it is: an explanation. In the end people end up feeling they are being pushed around and she ends up feeling nobody understands her. =( Well, I do. I do! lol. Believe me, I've felt more than just a little bit lonely myself after one of my wild orch rants. But nobody but me has caused me to feel that way. I do ultimately end up toning it down...but it hurts. Compromise, compromise, compromise. It may hurt to step back and observe, to take a breather from something you are fiercely passionate about and has angered you to no end. But I can begin to feel the weight of my own words sometimes and that's when I have to step off and restore that balance once again. (Btw, Eppie-Sue, I deeply admire the passion you have for this show and for the cast. That never has nor ever will bother me. I'm always cheering you on but at the same time worried things will get nasty between members. I wish everyone was as passionate as you, then we'd stage a revolt against the mothereffing stunt casting/orchs/trashing original production travesty/etc...  )
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| She's_My_Sister |
Okay, I just wanted to add that I agree that I should definitely been more careful about searching the Les Mis forum for this topic instead of starting a new one, and that my opinion was formed with a total bias and without any real evidence. I have a tendency to form opinions quickly(not good, i know), so I agree with a lot of the criticisms about the post. In additon, I don't know Les Mis very well, giving me less authority to form an opinion, even though I agree with the point that everyone can have their own opinions. In conclusion, I hope this can end the whole issue and that we can all just be happy with each other. 
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| Eppie-Sue |
I just want to say that I'm absolutely terrified by everything and I don't know what to say other than that I'm sorry for anything that might have made anyone feel uncomfortable, and that for me, it's always only been about the show and the cast, and I didn't know I was really being a bother in expressing it the way I did. That was truly all. I just felt comfortable about it before all this happened and didn't know that really, it was a problem - I was the problem - , so I apologise for that. It won't be an issue anymore. | ||||
| She's_My_Sister |
No worries.  And no need to apologize for having an opinion. I'm just glad we can all get along and talk about musical theatre together.
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| riverdawn |
Honestly, I don't think you need to be terrified or upset by what has been said - although of course you are entitled to those feelings. This is a discussion forum. Like all discussion forums, it sometimes suffers from misunderstandings and arguments which stem - in large part - from the fact that we (all of us, not just any one person) often forget that when we write other people can't hear our tone of voice.... as a result, what we mean as a joke sometimes gets taken seriously. What we intend to be a throw-away comment sometimes gets taken as the main thing. And when we merely want to explain what we say we sometimes come across as argumentative. Again, this happens to all of us, not to one person. It's certainly happened to me more than once - that I inadvertently upset or offended someone with no intention to do so. So basically, I think we all just need to take a moment to re-read before we post, thinking about what we would think if we read that post written by someone else. And really, we generally have a very nice and friendly community here. I hope we can put the arguing behind us and move forward.
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| Quique |
Hooray! Let's all FRENCH KISS...and make up!
 MUAH!
I agree. No need to feel bad. I very much like you Eppie-Sue (in a totally non-creepy, "pal" kinda way, lol) and I'm sure I'm not alone. I hope I haven't made you feel unwelcome because you totally are!!! Btw, that last bit of my previous post was directed at you. Just thought I'd clarify since the first part of my post was directed at Orestes and it might seem as if the last part was too, hehe.
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| MSam |
Well I haven't heard him sing any Les Mis repertoire, so I can't judge him until then. If he's going to be singing Marius' solos at the 25th concert well..he'd better be fantastic. | ||||
| Roseinmisery |
I don't have a lot against Nick Jonas, considering I thought he made quite a good Gavroche. I just don't think he's right for Marius. I suppose my main issue is age. Nick Jonas is seventeen, whereas Marius is about twenty-two. I just doubt he'll have the maturity. That, and he's not Michael Ball. | ||||
| Muscialperformer92 |
That's not really a good reason at all  I get so tired of hearing people saying about Mariuses "well he's no Michael Ball"- of course he's not! And that's great! Wouldn't it be a bit boring if everyone playing the role had the exact same voice and acting as MB?
- Though that has nothing to do with Nick Jonas- I was about to slam my head into the wall when I found out they had cast him- I don't think he's qualified for that role in anyway.. well at least I won't see it until a couple of weeks after he is gone. |
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| duringtheafter |
I agree...Nick Jonas sucks balls. (And not in that good way.) While he won't ruin the show, he will hardly raise it above its current level.Yes, I can say that unequivocally, sight unseen in the role. |
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| Quique |
Hmmm, a bit harsh, no? | ||||
| The Very Angry Woman |
Re: I agree...
Of course you can. And we can all laugh at you. |
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| mastachen |
Re: I agree...
Neither will a lot of the cast, and yet you single out Nick Jonas. |
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| kemathenga |
The only thing I find "sucking" in regard to NJ, so far, is that he is getting a lot of attention just for being Nick Jonas. I shudder at the thought of those
barriers at our cosy stage door. If he does a great performance he can get all the attention people want to give him, but for now I can only quote A.A. Milne at him "somebody tell me: WHAT DID HE DO?" |
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| Javvyshomegirl73 |
When I found out I ran around the house screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! NO NO NOOOOO!!!!" My Dad actally called my mom and told her "somethings wrong with her"
All I have to say is, he played Gavroche...there is a video of him messing with my Javert, I like Gavroche a lot, but when a "Jo Bro" is touching my guy...oh there will be death. And I am interterested to see if he does good. My little sisters who are "Mizzys" were all mad LOL! One of them joked "you'll see, he won't be able to take his skinny jeans off in time" |
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| Eppie-Sue |
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| Javvyshomegirl73 |
*sigh* I join this site and I am ALREADY scareing people, Sorry, I just REALLY not a big fan of the Jonas brothers...But MAYBE Nick will be amazing and will wow the world and be in the 30th anniversary dream cast concert if they have one....
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| The Very Angry Woman |
I really hope you're just a poorly-executed sock puppet.
Either way, your sig is really annoying. |
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| Javvyshomegirl73 |
Oh don't worry, I changed it for you
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| Roseinmisery |
Aww, I think it's sort of cute in a non canon, Shoujo Cosette kinda way. And as for Michael Ball, I just meant that he (or anyone else who has played Marius well) would be better cast in the role than Nick Jonas. |
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| Javvyshomegirl73 |
[/quote]Aww, I think it's sort of cute in a non canon, Shoujo Cosette kinda way.[/quote]
Thank you Got one of Javert who is young and looking panicked and says "WHAT!! I grow up to be WHAT!!??"
And I think Michael Ball will always be the best Marius..He is the only reason why I ended up not minding Marius. It will be a while before we get another GREAT Marius...Hey lets look at it this way... At least Justin Bieber won't be Enjolras!
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| Roseinmisery |
Thank you Got one of Javert who is young and looking panicked and says "WHAT!! I grow up to be WHAT!!??"
And I think Michael Ball will always be the best Marius..He is the only reason why I ended up not minding Marius. It will be a while before we get another GREAT Marius...Hey lets look at it this way... At least Justin Bieber won't be Enjolras! [/quote]
Hehe.
He's my favourite too. Not that I don't like other Marii, I just love the way he played the role. Justin Bieber as Enjolras would be horrific. I think I'd probably die of laughing, especially given all the slash jokes. |
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| Javvyshomegirl73 |
Hhahahhahah No kidding!! | ||||
| kemathenga |
Well, they did cast a dream-cast for the TAC, people who had played the roles and played them exceptionally well somewhere on the globe. But times have changed and for TwAC maybe more attention is needed and a glittering name pulls the money out of people's wallets.
There maybe more to Nick Jonas then his name, we'll see, but I doubt that in ten years time when they are looking for a Marius we'll sigh about someone "He's not Nick Jonas, of course". |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
It was never created as a dream cast; it was just marketed as such. Not everyone in those roles was even the first choice. It wasn't so much a dream or even ideal cast as opposed to a mishmash of the creative team's favorites and who among them was available. | ||||
| hazellwood |
Amen, my friend, amen. 
Many people who thought that Gareth Gates would be awful are now eating their words. (Not everyone, of course, but many.) I'm sure Nick will do fine- my only problem is, I don't think 'fine' is enough for this huge of a deal. I have no problems with Nick (Although I am a bit worried about his acting), my problem lies in the fact that many of the people they are casting for the concert won't have actually been in the show. Because three weeks is not enough time to gain a good sense of the character they are playing and learn to interact with the other personas on stage with you. Anyway. Like I said, I'm sure Nick will be fine, but I guess we just have to wait until he's actually performing in the role after cast change. ETA: Will there ever be a "dream cast"? Most people have different opinions of people who are in the roles. So a "dream cast" is relative. I know my opinion of most cast members is different from my friends' opinions, and many of the other posters on this forum. |
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| Javvyshomegirl73 |
I agree...Nick might take the whole thing by storm and wow the entire crowd. | ||||
| The Very Angry Woman |
No, there won't. You answered your own question. Just as there will never be a "dream meal," or "dream museum," or hell... "dream sex," there can never be a "dream cast" of anything. Unless you're Sega and you brand something that way. |
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| Ulkis |
Yeah. Back then Les Mis was a relatively new musical. Now it's much older and I think it needs more help getting attention. |
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| Javvyshomegirl73 |
I agree...Maybe this will get Nick Jonas lovers to go "Oh my gosh NOW I have to read the book! And see the musical!!" Dare I say the 1998 movie is what got me into Les Mis in the first place...So I guess good things to come out of well...Odd things thats about as nice as I can put it 
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| kemathenga |
That's exactly what I meant. And @:TVAW: Well, I was relying on that book by Edward Behr "LEs Miserable, History in the Making". But I still think after having had the chance to compare some of the TAC members to others they did a very good job casting them then. I'm not sure if not the level of expectation will have changed, also. In TAC I admire the subdued way of acting. The way Ruthie Henshaw presents Fantines situation with just a flick of her head (at Bamatabois for instance) to me is much more convincing than all the screaming and scratching and spitting I've seen done on stage or youtube. Just judging from the change that has come in literature, namely young adult fiction, - choosing a subject I'm rather at home with - audiences expect more action today, more going into extremes, and publishers and managers favour that tendency, naturally. Anyway, from a strictly artistic point of view it will very interesting to compare the two concerts and reflect on the changes in society showing in them. |
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| Javvyshomegirl73 |
Very good point, Its crazy how much things change, they don't cut many people like Ruthie or Philip from that cloth anymore, I'm going to go see Les Mis in 2011 and I am looking forword to seeing it. And as you pointed out,audiences expect more action today, more going into extremes, and publishers and managers favour that tendency, I want to be in theater when I am older, (Far fetched, I know! Thats why I Have my backup career) and hopefully becoming someone worthy of broadway, I am very interested to see how much it has changed over the last 20 years. I think it's all quite cool if you ask me But hopefully someday in this "New" way of thinking in our Society someone like Ruthie will pop up and remind us what it used to be like with a mix of "Whats happening now" In society.
...Dang...I am not sure if my ramblings made sence...I feel like Grantaire! XD |
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| Orestes Fasting |
The "subdued" acting in the TAC probably has less to do with the actors and more to do with the fact that it was a concert. I'm willing to bet most of the TAC performers were much more "extreme" when they were performing the full staging and had to project all the way to the back of the theatre, instead of standing there and singing in front of the cameras. |
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| kemathenga |
I'm positive they were. In fact, the TAC is a mixture of concert and theatre. In a "real" concert all the acting the artist does is directed at the audience not at co-artists. TAC has a lot of inter-acting between actors and those had do be done in such a subdued way so as to keep the balance between the two different kinds of performance.
Given the fact that Les Mis is another piece of alchemistry, the in itself impossible effort to make a 1700 pages book full of characters, history, local references, philosophical and psychological, not to mention theological, hints and actual treatises into an about 2-hours musical comprehensible and enjoyable for people who never read the book, the TAC is a masterpiece in my eyes. Stage performances transform much more of the book into action but this is often comprehensible only for those who know the book. See the silliest/funniest things said about Les Mis. I'd very much like to see the German performance taking place this summer in Leofels for comparison but so far couldn't raise a budget for that. |
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| l'ivrogne transfigur� |
I have to say, I don't really follow your arguments, because as good as the TAC is, I don't see how it is able to transfer Hugo's book onto stage more successfully than a fully staged production.
However, do you have any information about this Leofels production? I'm very tempted by it... Edit: Is it in German? I would love to see a live German language production! |
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| kemathenga |
About the Leofels-performance: it certainly is in german which is one reason made me hesitate to order tickets for I much prefer the english version. And I can't for the life of me find any reviews online, not even in local newspapers. But, then, newspaper often don't upload their article but prefer to have people pay for them .
You can find the production's homepage here: http://www.burgschauspiele.de/index.html It's an open-air performance and we're still debating whether we want to go. It proved much easier to go to London, in fact, because we could fly there and have friends in the vicinity who were "co-crazy" enough to host us three times in succession. Leofels would mean 200 km by car either way with only me as a driver Still, it's my birthday in July ...
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| Eponines_Hat |
Nick Jonas's first night in Les Mis. God help us all!
WHY, CAMMACK, WHY???!! |
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| lovesinging |
Please say someone is going to this and can inform us as to how it is. | ||||
| beyondthebarricade |
Well. I didn't feel for Marius at all. He got all his lines out, but there was not much depth in his performance. I don't want to say much, and he sang in a pop voice which was really a contrast to Killian's/Camilla's in the respective scenes, and...I think his voice broke on the G note "became (their last communion)" in ECAET. Compared to Alistair, well Alistair doesn't have the best voice in the world, but he's so endearing and hopelessly in love with Cosette that makes him a dynamic character. Nick, I feel, didn't interact much with others, and I found it especially odd after Eponine's death as Alistair and Martin normally interact a lot there.
Oh, and not really on topic, but if anyone wants to know, there was applause for Lamarque is Dead and a few tried clapping for Deadjolras too. |
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| Eponines_Hat |
weird..... |
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| flying_pigs |
Some pictures and article from last night:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1288511/Nick-Jonas-cheered-older-brothers-Kevin-Joe-makes-West-End-debut-Les-Miserables.html |
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| l'ivrogne transfigur� |
Sorry, can I just ask that people post in the London Cast: 2010/2011 thread? It's getting confusing having these two separate threads, and it seems appropriate that all the Nick Jonas stuff should be in one place. | ||||
| Eponines_Hat |
Oh ffs. how ridiculous. btw HATE the blonde cosette - she needs a wig (though don't mind katie on the tour. This girl's hair just looks flat) and Sam Barks needs some dirt on her.... |
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| Quique |
Aww, he looks really good for the role. I haven't heard him sing anything from Les Mis as Marius but I did get to hear a snippet of his pop stuff recently and thought he sounded a tad prepubescent. Marius is supposed to be young so that's not a big deal. I just hope he grows into the role during his run. Three weeks is too little, he'll probably give his best performances just as he's performing his last! | ||||
| stelllar |
I have to say from what i've heard on youtube, i'm pleasantly surprised. I was envisioning a very American accent, in contrast to Camilla, and a very 'pop' voice, but I thought he carried it off quite well. I agree that he can't hold some of the notes for very long though. |