Archive for Musicals.Net Musicals.Net |
| Fantine |
Non-Caucasian cast membersWe had an Asian Fantine in London for a long time - and I'm referring to the greatness that is Joanna Ampil here - and I was wondering if anyone was bothered by this or either say the current Javert, Cornell John? (not intending rascism here, but concerning Victor Hugo's views).Another aspect of this: Do you think that they should have made Cosette Asian (influenced) as well? Did this bother you at all or does this kind of thing not even cross your mind? |
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| DarthRevan00m9 |
I saw pictures of a black Javert. Not sure which cast he was in but it was on the website. Also don't forget there are whole Les Mis's in many other countries (just check out the last 30 min. on the 10th anniversary video recording). | ||||||||||||
| Fantine |
Yes that's true... Hm... Still, in the 'mixed' productions, I am still wondering what you all think about the Fantine/Cosette relation. 
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| Orestes Fasting |
It's a little odd for me when the Thenardier parents and Eponine are different races, just because they're onstage together and interacting and such, but I don't think it matters as much with Cosette. By the second act half the audience has forgotten she's Fantine's kid anyway, and I really didn't think about it when I saw the 3NT with Joan Almedilla and Leslie Henstock.
What was weird was seeing Shaun Escoffery in London. I don't know why that should seem stranger to me than Cornell as Javert or Joan as Fantine, but it did. Maybe it was the shaved head. 
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| The Very Angry Woman |
There's only one, the current London Javert: Cornell John. |
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| DarthRevan00m9 |
Thank you |
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| convict24601 |
I really don't see any problem with different races playing different roles. I grew up open to many different types of people and I dont see any problems with an african american Javert, or heck - a hispanic valjean. Seeing that I'm tan myself, (long story) I'd feel a little discriminated if I had everything that the casting director looks for in a certain character, yet not be given the role because I'm ... I little darker in skin tone than actors who previously played the role. I guess if the person has what it takes - go for it (seeing as this is theatre.) | ||||||||||||
| The Very Angry Woman |
And it's been done: http://www.littlewomenonbroadway.com/varela.html http://www.thecelebritycafe.com/interviews/philip_hernandez.html |
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| Fantine |
I know, but that is not really the answer to the question I am looking for. I am talking about the relationships in the show: the Thenardiers and Fantine/Cosette. Do you think that members of the same family should have the same etnicy? |
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| FreddiesHalfMic |
I think that the racial differences leave people's mind fairly quickly. When my school did Man Who Came to Dinner, every member of the Stanley family was white except June. We had quite a day laughing about it, but the audience barely even noticed. And with the Thenardiers... any child of the Thenardiers can be just about anything, knowing them ^_^ I somehow doubt all of Mme Thenardie's kids are Thenardier's. LOL
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| Aimee |
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| Mademoiselle Lanoire |
When they make a movie, I hope that family members match. But it's less feasible, really, on stage: members of a company come and go at different times, and it's not always possible to do so all the time. | ||||||||||||
| javertsw |
It's theatre.
Let people use their imagination. It doesn't matter whether the actors are the same races. In a film I can understand. But on stage it doesn't have to look realistic to have an effect. |
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| olly |
lol, I was thinking the same thing. |
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| Mademoiselle Lanoire |
I disagree. Do you think Thenardier would have reacted nicely to seeing her pop out a kid so obviously the child of another man? |
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| Bex |
i am really looking forward to seeing the new Javert! (this is hard to say without accidently sounding insulting!) i think it'll be fasinating to see a different interpritation or soemthing...i dont know..i confussed myself! | ||||||||||||
| Colle |
It has not bothered me when the races between Fantine and Cosette and the Thenardiers' and Eponine do not match. I am used to it, most of the time I have seen the show their races have not matched. I have seen a black Fantine (Tonya Dixon) with a white Cosette (Amanda Huddleston), both Eponines' I have seen (Rona Figueroa and Ma-Anne Dionisio) were asian with mostly white parents with (I think) the exception of Aymee Garcia as Madame Thenardier, who I think is hispanic. Correct me if I am wrong about Aymee. I guess I pay more attention to their singing and acting then anything else, so it doesn't bother me.
Interesting fact, the 3nt used to have a Cosette understudy who was asian, Nina Negri. She did go on, at least one from what I have heard, with an asian Fantine, Joan Almedilla. |
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| LesMisForever |
Hello Freddies probaably meant to make a joke rather than serious comment  . Having said that, i have to say that Mme Thenardiers was devouted to her husband, and HE WAS THE MASTER. She only followed him.
In the musical she is not faithfuly portrayed (sp?). She wouldn't make those comments about him at all if we go by the novel. As for Fantine question....in essence it shouldn't matter, but sometimes you can't help your feelings. I don't mind children being different race, and i didn't mind a black Javert, but i have to admit that black, and bald Enjolras felt weired. As Fantine said. This is NOT racism. I had a black girlfriend for 2 years, and i have no problem with them at all, but i just felt black and bald Enjolras didn't fit very well. EDIT: initially i wrote "bold" Enjolras, but i meant "bald", hence TVAW subsequent comment. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
What do you mean about it being inappropriate for him to be "bold," though? | ||||||||||||
| The_Wicked |
LesMisForever is racist!!! BURN HIM!!! Wow, totally kidding. I don't know why it should matter so much with Enjolras really... I mean I don't understand what you mean by "bold" but I think the only races that should really be an issue would be Cosette, Eponine, Fantine, the Thenardiers, and to an extent Gavroche (because he is the son of the Thenardiers, though the musical doesn't really establish that) and Valjean (because Cosette would have to be one dumb broad to not figure out that an african-american man might not be related to his white "daughter".) However, I am just playing Devil's Advocate here because if they can sing and they can act and they can carry the part, then color-blind casting for all. Confused about my two conflicting statements? ...So am I... | ||||||||||||
| LesMisForever |
OUCH!!! i made big mistake  . I meant BALD.
But, i wouldn't say casting him was inapporpriate. I am only saying that it felt weired to me. Maybe if i see it few more times it cease to be though. Who knows? |
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| Fantine |
Hehe for some reason I find that very amusing. I understand what LMF is saying though. You just have an idea formed in your head about a certain character and what s/he should look like. |
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| Superstar83 |
I thought that having a black Jarvet and Enjolras would be a bit of a distraction simply because I've only ever seen white actors in those roles but it wasn't at all. The minute they started singing I forgot all about race. Same thing with Eponine's...the fact that she's been played by non white actresses a lot doesn't cause any distraction at all for me.
In a movie, it would be ridiculous if members of the same family were different colours with no explination but somehow it works okay for theatre. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
I thought the same thing when I saw a video of a TV interview with him and from the production photos. Once I adjusted to a black Enjolras (only because, well, he has no predecessor in that arena, and I felt the same way when I saw Thursday Farrar as Fantine for the first time), I still couldn't get over the lack of hair. Does anyone her know if he opposed to a wig? |
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| LesMisForever |
Hello
Excatly TVAW...the lack of hair is really what bother me most. Hugo spend some time talking about his hair, and all the Enjolras (es) i have seen had rather long hair, and then bang! no hair at all
btw...i think you meant anyone here, not her .
Do i deserve a medal for spotting this? 
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| Fantine |
Hehe yes that was kind of a shock 
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| FreddiesHalfMic |
Thenardier could very well be too caught up in his schemes to notice ^_^ |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
Yes. It says "This is gold! And you suck!" |
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| Kragey |
I'm pretty sure I saw Andrew Varela in CATS...I'm too lazy to dig out my playbill, though. |
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| javertsw |
I kind of understand what you mean about Enjolras, LesMisForever.
Even when last year's Enjolras' didn't have blonde hair it kind've annoyed me. |
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| The_Wicked |
A blonde Enjolras... huh. I've never seen a blonde Enjolras and I think it might distract me if I did. I see Enjolras as a tall, dark, and hadsome type. I dunno... maybe not distract but that's interesting... I don't think the men in Les Mis can be blondes for me.
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| The Very Angry Woman |
Hugo repeatedly went on and on about Enjolras' luscious blond locks, but yes, there haven't been that many as of late. Especially in the US. (Which isn't such a bad thing, seeing as Christopher Mark Peterson and Dallyn Bayles would've looked tragic in blond wigs.)
Funny you say that; Richard-Jay Alexander, the former resident director for the US tours and Broadway, used to have a "no blondes" rule. He made all naturally blonde performers dye their hair. Then he was fired. |
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| The_Wicked |
TVAW I don't know what M.net would be like without you. You crack me up. That is an odd rule though... no blondes... come to think of it I don't think I've seen anyone in Les Mis (lead-wise) that WAS blonde except for Fantine, Gavroche, and the Thenardiers... Funny how that works out but I never noticed. | ||||||||||||
| The Very Angry Woman |
I think RJA just didn't want them to stick out in contrast to Fantine, and to make Fantine's hair more "special." And to keep things dark and dirty. That works to a degree, but is otherwise dumb. Catherine Brunell and Jessica Boevers were both Broadway Eponines who were blonde. Stephen Patterson, former US tour and Broadway Marius, is blond. Amanda Salmon, former London Eponine, is also blonde. Regan Thiel was the first blonde Cosette (US tour). But still, it doesn't happen often, and certainly did not under RJA, who I believe was with Les Miz for 8 or 9 years. |
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| RyanJ |
I'm not racist, but I think that Les Mis is a predominantly white show. LM isn't really meant to exclude anyone of any race, but it looks best with more caucasian members.
Again, I'm definitely not racist...I have tons of black friends, but LM is a pretty white show. |
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| Kragey |
And they were both great, especially Catherine. I saw a blonde Enjolras once. A hot, talented blonde Enjolras, at that! |
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| Superstar83 |
I really like Catherine. Her OMO is great. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
Was it http://www.benjaminjaydavis.com ? |
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| Colle |
I saw a blonde Enjolras, John Andrew Clark, and I was a little disappointed in him because I wished he would have shown more passion.
My least favorite Eponine I have seen/heard in any way was blonde, Megan Lawrence. When she sang "On My Own" on the Today show, I thought it was too whinny and dramatic. One of the current U.S. tour Eponine understudies, Marissa McGowan, is blonde and I have heard she is pretty good. |
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| olly |
He's not blonde? |
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| B3TA07 |
^What? I think you misread... | ||||||||||||
| olly |
Pardon? I don't understand. Would you say he's a dark/dirty blonde, because I may see where you're coming from. It's just that he looks more light brown to me. |
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| Kragey |
I understand your confusion, but really, most "natural" blondes have a darker shade of blonde hair. I can tell his hair's blonde, it's just dark...more of a gold color. And it wasn't him I was talking about, but oooooo, I remember seeing him once. I mean, ooooooo. He was pretty impressive, as well as generally pretty! But I don't think Peter Lockyer was on that night...no, I know he wasn't. And the guy I'm thinking of was hot as Hell, but I'm quite sure it was a local production...bah, I should start writing this all down. |
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| Aimee |
I few years ago the London Enjolras was very blonde. I don't recall his name though. TVAW??? | ||||||||||||
| The Very Angry Woman |
Jason McCann, maybe? |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
He's actually very blond. (I've seen him in several shows.) He just doesn't look it in several of those photos. But check out the ones of him as Feuilly. |
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| Kragey |
GUH. :: turns off fangirling :: |
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| Timmy_Wishes he was Quast |
Hated it! Sorry i'm not a racist person. But after seeing LM in London i spent a long while convincing my self that society would have allowed a blak man to rise to the level of Police Inspoector, and his performance didn't help!! In complete contrast, a BLACK enjolras!? PERFECT! i loved it, it made so much sense...and he was awesome! | ||||||||||||
| Mademoiselle Lanoire |
Bwah? Read the book. He's not white, and there's really no reason that he should always be portrayed as such-whether or not Cornell John is a good actor. | ||||||||||||
| Fantine |
What? |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
Last I checked, the Roma counted as white. (And Cornell John certainly doesn't look Roma.) |
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| Fantine |
Wait a minute, you lost me here. Who's not white? | ||||||||||||
| Timmy_Wishes he was Quast |
Agreeing with the TVAW here.
Fantine we are discussing Javert! |
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| Fantine |
Why yes, but Mademoiselle Lanoire is saying that Javert isn't white in the book? | ||||||||||||
| Colle |
In the book, it does point out that Javert is Gypsy, here is the Webster's New World Dictionary defination of a Gypsy: "A member of a wandering Caucasoild people, perhaps orig. from India, with dark skin and black hair." It sounds like Javert would be considered white, though in France he would be a minority. | ||||||||||||
| Fantine |
Oh nice, I had completely forgotten about that! Sheez, I really need to read the novel again
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| Bex |
just got back from seeing les mis...was a little gutted by the performance of Javert! he appeared...affraid of the role...in some points what he did was nice, but it just felt like he hit a level and wouldnt go past it...and that level...well...it wasnt the best he could have achieved...in my opinion | ||||||||||||
| Superstar83 |
For me he was the weakest link in the show, and I had low expectations anyway after reading a few reviews beforehand. For me it was the lack of acting that was the real problem...he sang fine, but was too wooden even for Jarvet IMHO. |
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| Kragey |
His left hand does a marvelous job, thank you very much. =P |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
Whoah! Whoah! No, no, cannot go there...must resist... |
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| Kragey |
You know exactly what I meant, Missy. XD |
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| Orestes Fasting |
"Take him, Valjean! Before I change my mind!" ....*ducks and runs* |
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| Fantine |
"I will be waiting, 24601!" | ||||||||||||
| Moci |
It's times like this that I wonder where Sairin has disappeared to. | ||||||||||||
| Fantine |
She's been busy... And she goes to other forums a lot. But I told her that we missed her over here so maybe she'll pop in some time in the future
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| Aimee |
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| Fantine |
"He knows his way in the dark" | ||||||||||||
| digitalxdoll |
.....but mine is the way of the lord. | ||||||||||||
| Kragey |
That just...oh man. :: laughs hysterically :: |
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| Bex |
ah the left hand! it was when he used his right hand, then changed them over during Stars that had me wetting myself!
According to my friend i sounded like a fire safety person...when he jumps of the bridge Mcarthy (SP) did this drop and roll thing to look like he was swirling in the water. ON saturday javert stood there with an arm up (left of course!) and i was muttering 'drop and roll, drop and roll' under my breath for ages! he did in the end, but the only way he wouldnt have hit the water by the time he did was if he was jumping off of everest! |
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| Moci |
Poor Snookums. | ||||||||||||
| liza_minelli |
okay im gonna go back on subject :s
In the 2nd production of Les Mis I performed in Cosette was from India, Fantine had blonde hair, and myself playing little Cosette had pale skin, freckles and dark brown hair. However all of us were small for our age (Fantine being in her late 20s and Cosette in her early 20s, I was 11 I think ..?) So it turned out Fantine was the slightest bit taller than me, and Cosette was smaller!! When there's a difference like that I think it's slightly weird but I don't think it matters overall. Liza xx |
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| Fantine |
Yeah I know, Michael's Suicide was a 100% more impressive!! |
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| Kragey |
:: giggle snort :: |
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| Aimee |
 That really mad me laugh. Thanks for that Bex.
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| Orestes Fasting |
*immature giggling* |
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| Bex |
i was giggling just like that during the show. the women next to me looked as though she wanted to kil me! |
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| LesMisForever |
Hello
To be the odd voice here, i do find it rather unpleasent when someone laugh during death, or very serious scenes. I want to STRESS that i am not judging anyone here. If the scene makes you laugh then you can't help it. I am only expressing my feelings. I once had couple of girls behind me giggling during more, or less the whole barricade scenes. They really really annoyed me. I hope i didn't offend anyone. |
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| Fantine |
I hate that too. | ||||||||||||
| Superstar83 |
There always seem to be a few people who chuckle during Gavroche's death and it really pisses me off. The cold blooded murder of an innocent child is funny is it? Oh dear. Fiction or not, it seems like a really inappropriate reaction. I've seen it five times now and I still get sad over it. | ||||||||||||
| The Very Angry Woman |
It's not that. They're laughing at themselves for jumping. The same people who laugh are the same ones who 34 seconds later are also crying. | ||||||||||||
| Fantine |
Me too, that's one of the saddest parts in the musicals... Wait a sec... It is the saddest part. |
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| Kragey |
I once had a group of teenage girls laugh throughout the whole first act of CATS. They made fun of every move they made. Honestly, they're people pretending to be cats. What do you expect? On that note, I can completely understand laughing during a really tacky death scene. |
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| javertsw |
People do tend to laugh when they are shocked, though.
I do it. If you it was your first time seeing Les Mis, and you didn't know the story, and the gun shot goes off and he dies- you might laugh just out of shock. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
Right; it's the same kind of laughter that happens after the gunshots in Phantom -- and no one dies because of those. | ||||||||||||
| dramatic_mizfit |
When I saw the Les Mis tour in '03, Tonya Dixon was playing Fantine, she's black. I wasn't really fazed by it. It just didn't bother me a whole lot that she was black and Cosette was white. Like someone said earlier; it's theater. Imagination is key. | ||||||||||||
| Kragey |
When I saw Tonya Dixon, I didn't even notice what color she was until she came in for the finale. I just thought, "Zoahmahgawd, this lady IS Fantine." |
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| Superstar83 |
Has there been any black Eponine's or Cosette's, out of interest? We've had a lot of Asian Eponine's, and I think one Asian Cosette, but I've never seen or heard of any black women in the roles, at least not in any London/US productions... | ||||||||||||
| The Very Angry Woman |
Shanice played Eponine on Broadway for a short time, and Morenike Fadayomi understudied Eponine in the original Vienna cast. I don't believe there's ever been a black Cosette in the US. |
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| Superstar83 |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
There are a bunch of photos floating around of the Japanese Cosettes, so it may have been one of them. In the US, there have only been understudies. Most recently, Nina Negri and Ali Ewoldt on the US tour. |
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| Fantine |
Was this the icon?
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| Bex |
i really dont think it's skin colour or what ethnic group your from...its your acting. if thingy playing Javert at the moment was white...i'd still slate him! cause he was so poor...in fact if he was white i may even rip him more as i wouldnt be afraid of being called racist | ||||||||||||
| dramatic_mizfit |
I think I noticed mostly because I was reading the program before the show started and made some sort of comment to my dad like "Oh look, Fantine is black. That's really cool." She was really good too. |
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| Jordan |
I don't care what colour someone is as long as they can play the role.
On the CSR sleeve notes it does mention that they deliberately chose an American Cosette to go with the American Valjean as she would have grown up with him. Makes sense then that if they casted (j/k, I KNOW it's CAST) a film they'd make sure everyone was of the appropriate ethnicity to their family. |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
That makes sense on paper, but it's amusing -- for those who can tell -- to hear Gary Morris' Texas accent contrast with her general Midwest one. (I actually don't know where Tracy Shayne is originally from, but it's definitely not whereever Gary Morris is.) |
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| Kragey |
Tracy Shayne and Gary Morris both annoy the crap out of me on the CSR. Part of me says they should've just imported a bunch of Asian actors if they wanted the recording to be any good...but that's just my Kaho obsession speaking. And this is a REALLY stupid question, I know, but...since it's a recording, why does it matter what country they're from? |
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| Jordan |
**SHOCK HORROR** Google gave me this on the first hit: http://www.geocities.com/tracyshayne1/bio.html How could TVAW not know something about Les Mis? *Faints* |
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| The Very Angry Woman |
Well, for what it's worth, I prefer not to care too much about/research/think about/know about/ Tracy Shayne. |