The Pirate King
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Notable Marius performers, and perhaps some advice?Mdn,
So I'm playing Marius in our SE. I had been hunting the role of Javert for months, but in the end I was cast as Marius and the Javert understudy (after almost being Enjolras). This was entirely unexpected, in a very good way. Javert is more in line with my previous roles: I'm typically more of a character actor who plays dark, brooding and BAMF, or else comic relief.
While I played Romeo three years ago, Marius is still the type of role that will be more of a challenge to me, and so far I am really enjoying rehearsals.
First things first, who would you all recommend as having great interpretations or performances as Marius? Of course, I know Michael Ball and he's great. I also have recordings of David Bryant, Mike Sterling, Hugh Panaro, Eric Kunze, Tim Howar, Kevin Kern, Adam Jacobs, Daniel Bogart, Hayden Tee and Jon Lee. I also enjoy Pradon in the role on the PRC, and also have Duisburg, Berlin, Prague Bidnici, Antwerp, and the OFC. Do any of these, or any others that you'd recommend, stand out to you as near-definitive performances?
I really do enjoy a good deal of them--some of Jacobs' acting choices, and Kern's vocal delivery. I'm trying to come across some recordings of Craig Rubano and Peter Lockyer--are there any others I should be on the lookout for?
Secondly, does anyone have advice on how to portray the character. I did read the whole Brick last spring, and remember being surprised as to how much I liked Marius. Indeed, at times he reminded me of myself. I want to portray that he was a man of convictions, not just someone with no history until he meets Cosette. He views Eponine with pity and some fondness, and may have an inkling all along as to her affections. Fraternal relationships with Enjolras and Marius.
I really want to be able to show the character arc he goes through throughout the story--right now, I'm having a much easier time with the second act than with the first. If anyone's played Marius or knows the character well, any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
Pirate King
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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Hey there Pirate King,
First of all, congrats on the role!
Secondly, you seem to have a very good grasp on the character of Marius ... and wow, you've listened to a lot of people.
A few general pointers (that you probably have already thought of, because you know the character so well): you know that feeling you get when someone you don't generally hate but you think is a little bit creepy really likes you? The "I'm going to be nice to you, but please don't come any closer"? That's Marius/Eponine. He pities her, he has some fondness for her, and he's a little creeped out by her. I think he has some inkling as to her feelings for him, but he's in denial a little bit because... it's creepy.
His relationship with Cosette is also a little bit (or more than a little bit) awkward, especially at the beginning (which is really all they show in the musical). Remember the thing with the breeze and the garter and Marius being furious at the veteran? That kind of teenage desperate awkwardness ...
Anyway, since this probably doesn't help you at all, I'll wrap it up. But congrats and have a ton of fun!
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lesmisloony
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Well, I'd have to say, musical-wise, Adam Jacobs is my favourite Marius (though I've only seen a few live, so I'm not making any definitive statements here). Marius doesn't have enough screen-time in the musical to be fully fleshed-out, so I think AJ did a good job of capturing enough twee silliness to at least make a Marius on par with, like, fanfic. Or something. The reason his performance stands out so much for me is because he wasn't just another obnoxious leading man Gary Stu type. He was sort of clumsy and foolish, and then his AHFOL with Ali was so awkward and precious that you couldn't help smiling and being involved. (I'm actually grinning just remembering it.) And, being silly, it helped capture Marius's dreaminess and explain to fangirls why he couldn't tell Eppie Sue was obsessed with him.
And to add to what soprano said about their Book relationship, another really telling scene is when Cosette drops something, leans over to get it, and Marius turns away from looking at her, ah, cleavage. He's so chaste with her that it's more like idol worship than lust-at-first sight, which makes me glad. And we all know that all they did in the garden was look at the same glow-worm in the grass and blush madly when their knees brushed against each other. *dissolves into squee*
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Vanessa20
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The recorded MariiI don't have anything to add about the character, since you seem to have such a good grasp on him already.
As for the Marii on recording, I'm a Michael Ball fangirl, but I also loved both Adam Jacobs and Daniel Bogart when I saw them. I liked them both equally well, even though they were totally different, Dan being a more dignified Marius and Adam being more of the sweet, goofy type. Tim Howar, Hayden Tee and Jon Lee are also popular, though I've only heard a few clips of them.
By the way, is the Berlin recording legal? I'm just starting my collection of foreign legal LM recordings (so far I have the OFC, the PRC, Duisburg, and the Japanese Red Cast), and I'd love that one. The clips of that cast on Youtube hint at great things.
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lesmisloony
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There's a Berlin Highlights thing. I think it was unreleased, so no, it's not actually legal.
I have it.
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bigR
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I love Adam Jacobs too (although I have never seen him live).
I don't like very much book-Marius, and most times I can't help but to transfer my feelings to musical-Marius... but somehow I was totally unable to feel any kind of animosity against adam jacob's marius...
And although I'm not 100% sure about anything I might say about the Brick (re-reading is still at bishop's stage), I don't quite agree with the impressions you got from it.
I don't recall many fondness in his relation with �ponine and I don't remember him ever noticing in the slightlest bit the way she feels about him. Maybe because he does not seem to even listen to her when (if she is not talking about cosette of course). I actually got the impression that the girl could have fallen on her knees and made the most passionate declaration of love and he would not have noticed her.
And I don't see any fraternal relationship between Enjolras and Marius either. In the musical they make them look like best friends or something like that, but in the book they are not even close friends.
Actually Marius seems a bit intimidated by Enjolras, and Enjolras does not seem to think about him as anything other that an absent-minded boy who used to go to their meetings...
About the Berlin recording: it is a highlights studio recording tha remained unreleased. so, no, it is not really "legal".
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lesmisloony
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| Quote: | | I don't recall many fondness in his relation with �ponine and I don't remember him ever noticing in the slightlest bit the way she feels about him. |
Exactly, but this is musical Marius, and it doesn't quite work to play him fully Bookishly.
You're spot-on with Marius's relationship with Enj, too.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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Exactly. What one should try to do is to reconcile book!Marius and musical!Marius ... the lyrics Marius is given ("dearest Cosette / my friend 'Ponine"; or basically the entirety of ALFOR; or even the orginial "hey Eponine, what's up today?") wouldn't make sense in the context of book!Marius. But you can work around the lyrics in most cases to play his relationship with Eponine as a more distant one ... more like Adam Jacobs' slightly weirded out reactions to Celia than, say, like Michael Ball's flirtatious tones with Shimada and lovemaking to Lea during the TAC ALFOR...
And, as Loony said, you're 100% correct about the Marius/Enj relationship in the brick ... they're not friends, they're not even really compatriots. But hey, Boublil and Schonberg wrote the libretto so that they come off to any audience as friends ... Enj is slightly more dominant, but ... oh dear, I did not just write that.
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The Very Angry Woman
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| bigR wrote: | I love Adam Jacobs too (although I have never seen him live).
I don't like very much book-Marius, and most times I can't help but to transfer my feelings to musical-Marius... but somehow I was totally unable to feel any kind of animosity against adam jacob's marius... |
I saw Adam on tour and on Broadway multiple times and don't really get all the adulation. You couldn't feel animosity because his Marius was, well, not all that bright. He was the little dumb puppy who was sweet and cute and well-meaning. And that was about it.
If you want a really good example of a Marius in recent memory, look towards Charles Hagerty.
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Vanessa20
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Me butting inI agree with Loony. Even though I'm all for actors using the Brick to enrich their characterizations, I don't think they should fight the script of the musical just for the sake of being loyal to Hugo.
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lesmisloony
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^ Never thought I'd be the one saying stuff like that, huh?
Re: Adam Jacobs as a dumb puppy--
Yes exactly. It was adorable, though. You couldn't *not* like him.
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bigR
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Re: Me butting in | Vanessa20 wrote: | | I agree with Loony. Even though I'm all for actors using the Brick to enrich their characterizations, I don't think they should fight the script of the musical just for the sake of being loyal to Hugo. |
Of course. If you actively fight the script it can look contradictory and even absurd for the audience, but there's no need to fight the Brick either.
I mean: you have to deliver the "what's up today" line, but you can do it flirtatiously, in a friendly way, matter of factly or even in a "oh, no, it's her again" way. None of these actively fight the script. i guess the in between is some kind of "yes, yes, you're a nice and clever girl and you can read, all right, but please don't touch me"...
With ALFH: you can of course do the "oh, she is such a nice and courageous and loyal girl, I wish so much I was in love with her", or you can do "oh, god I don't know what to do with this girl dying in my arms, but I'll confort her and hold her since the poor thing is dying and I pity her... but not as much as to let her kiss me". If marius kisses �ponine, as sometimes he does, then he is unnecesarily fighting the Brick.
Same thing with his relationship with enjolras. This is probably more the director's than the actor's decision but if you have enjolras rushing down the barricade in the middle of the fight when marius is hurt, then you are innecesarily emphazising the "best friends" thing.
However, since in the musical it is enjolras who always approaches marius and not the other way around, it is probably more up to the actor who plays enjolras that to the one playing marius whether they appear more or less close. For example, some enjolrati seem to totally focus on marius while delivering the whole red and black speech while others adress not just marius but all the amis. And the �our little lives don�t count at all� was probably meant originally by boublil to be adressed to marius, but some actors adress it to the whole room in a general way, or throw it at grantaire, and it works. So, i don't believe in actively fighting the script but it is obvious that some acting decisions emphazise the best friends impression while others make it fade away.
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bigR
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 wrote: | | Enj is slightly more dominant, but ... oh dear, I did not just write that. |
another vote for Top Enj, it would seem... 
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lottielou22
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Man, guys, you are hardcore fans!
I've only seen the 10th Anniversary Concert and I really love the guy who plays Marius there... he's a total cutie, and he has a beautiful voice. I guess that isn't really the kind of info you're looking for, though.
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The Very Angry Woman
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| lesmisloony wrote: | Re: Adam Jacobs as a dumb puppy--
Yes exactly. It was adorable, though. You couldn't *not* like him. |
But he was so dim it was almost -- ALMOST -- unappealing.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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| lottielou22 wrote: | Man, guys, you are hardcore fans!
I've only seen the 10th Anniversary Concert and I really love the guy who plays Marius there... he's a total cutie, and he has a beautiful voice. I guess that isn't really the kind of info you're looking for, though. |
Ahh, lottielou, the man of whom you speak is Michael Ball. His voice is gorgeous, and he is adorable ... he was adorable (you probably don't want to see what has befallen him since, although I'm sure some here would be happy to provide visual assistance).
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The Very Angry Woman
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 wrote: | | he was adorable (you probably don't want to see what has befallen him since, although I'm sure some here would be happy to provide visual assistance). |
Don't do it. Teach a n00b to fish.
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lesmisloony
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| bigR wrote: | | With ALFH: you can of course do the "oh, she is such a nice and courageous and loyal girl, I wish so much I was in love with her", or you can do "oh, god I don't know what to do with this girl dying in my arms, but I'll confort her and hold her since the poor thing is dying and I pity her... but not as much as to let her kiss me". |
Eenteresting. I'd love to see a production that did it that way.
But... what would you recommend for "If I could heal your wounds with words of love"?
| lottielou22 wrote: | Man, guys, you are hardcore fans!
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...Haven't yet seen the "test your knowledge" thread, ey?
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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| lesmisloony wrote: | | But... what would you recommend for "If I could heal your wounds with words of love"? |
Can I bitch for like 2 seconds about how much I hate that line? Because it makes no sense, even in the context of the musical where the entire basis of the Eponine/Marius relationship is that she loves him and he loves someone else? Is that line simply there so that Eppyboppers can say, "SEE?!? THEY TOTALLY WOULD HAVE HOOKED UP IF SHE HADN'T DIED!!!1111!!"
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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| The Very Angry Woman wrote: | | curlyhairedsoprano91 wrote: | | he was adorable (you probably don't want to see what has befallen him since, although I'm sure some here would be happy to provide visual assistance). |
Don't do it. Teach a n00b to fish. |
Fish? Fish for what?
...Fish for pictures of Michael Ball in a fatsuit and drag?
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Orestes Fasting
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Give a n00b a fish, and they will thank you and continue to hit you up for goodies until you want to smack them.
Teach a n00b to fish, and they will eventually stumble across the shirtless Michael Maguire photos and never bother you again.
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The Very Angry Woman
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| Orestes Fasting wrote: | | Teach a n00b to fish, and they will eventually stumble across the shirtless Michael Maguire photos and never bother you again. |
Can I get this on a shirt, please?
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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| The Very Angry Woman wrote: | | Orestes Fasting wrote: | | Teach a n00b to fish, and they will eventually stumble across the shirtless Michael Maguire photos and never bother you again. |
Can I get this on a shirt, please? |
Ditto.
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The Pirate King
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Re: Me butting in | Vanessa20 wrote: | | I agree with Loony. Even though I'm all for actors using the Brick to enrich their characterizations, I don't think they should fight the script of the musical just for the sake of being loyal to Hugo. |
I completely agree as well. While I'm all for having as many nods to Hugo as possible, in many cases all of these things cannot work with the show as it is written.
For example, an actor playing Javert CANNOT decide to play the role as agnostic and ignore the lines that blatantly refer to his faith in God. While Hugo's Javert was certainly not a man of deep religious conviction, B&S' is, and attempting to play the role as contrary to this is impossible, and would crash and burn.
In the same way, I understand of course that Marius didn't have that close relationship with Les Amis in the novel--however, how can a Marius possibly dare to portray this on stage? Just decide not to perform "Empty Chairs" at all, and change "shall I join my brothers there" to "shall I join my vague acquaintances there?"?.
While the Brick IS Les Miserables, when performing the roles on stage one must work with what is written--Les Mis on stage is written by Boublil and Schonberg, and not Victor Hugo.
(Don't get me wrong, Hugo is my absolute favourite writer of all time)
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bigR
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well, hugo is not even close to be my favorite author of all times, but i still think that there is often a way to try to get close to the brick without fighting the script.
Of course they are things an actor can not change. Musical javert will always be religious and musical valjean will ask god to take his life instead of marius life.
And i don't think that all the musical things that differ from the book are bad. Something that works in a novel may not work in the same way in a play.
I am not against musical religious javert, for example. the old testament/new testament oposition works fine and helps the audience understand that javert is not "the bad guy".
I'm not against musical marius being closer to the amis than he is in the book either. And I perfectly understand why they made him best friend with enjolras. You just can't start introducing courfeyrac and everybody else if you don't want half the audience to fell asleep. And I also understand the need of"empty chairs". Otherwise marius would appear as a cold hearted bastard to the audience.
But even so, when it is not incompatible with the script I still prefer when the actors try to follow Hugo. An actor playing marius does not need to be flirty with eponine, and he certainly does not need to kiss her 
and any actor playing enjolras can choose whether to stress his frienship with marius or tone it down.
and maybe it's just me, but I've always seen the "shall i join my brothers" line more like a revolutionary "all men are my brothers" than as a sign of how close marius felt to his friends.
About ALFOR. I've never seen the "If I could heal your wounds..." as anything romantic. Maybe I'm weird but to me it has always been a hard line. What I always hear there is: "It is so impossible for me to love you that I am not even able to pretend it for a few seconds just to confort you while you are dying in my arms. I can't even fake it for a moment and all I can offer is my presence and my pity".
But maybe I'm just in denial.
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The Very Angry Woman
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I really liked what Niklas Andersson said in The Barricade. I have to paraphrase since I can't find it, but he said something like...sometimes you have to tell someone a little lie to make them feel better. And that was how he delivered the line -- lying to Eponine in her final moments.
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Orestes Fasting
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| bigR wrote: | | And I also understand the need of"empty chairs". Otherwise marius would appear as a cold hearted bastard to the audience. |
I don't think cutting Empty Chairs would make Marius look like a cold-hearted bastard so much as a two-dimensional character. He needed a solo, and the one they gave him might not be very true to the character but it's one of the best songs in the show. (Ditto Bring Him Home--Valjean needed an Act II solo and they were going to give him something very angsty and agitated about losing Cosette to this boy, but then Sch�nberg gave them a tune that worked best as a prayer.)
...actually, it's kind of funny how most of the songs that go contrary to the book (Empty Chairs, Turning, BHH, Stars) have their origins in "Well, [Marius/the female ensemble/Valjean/Javert] needs something to do."
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music is my life!!!
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i saw John Lee as Marius in London last year - he was AMAZING!!!!!
i found that he was a bit too good to be true though. make sure your interpretation is better scrubbed up than Eponine so you only see her as a friend, but so you are looking upto Cosette in awe
 [/quote]
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The Pirate King
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| Orestes Fasting wrote: |
...actually, it's kind of funny how most of the songs that go contrary to the book (Empty Chairs, Turning, BHH, Stars) have their origins in "Well, [Marius/the female ensemble/Valjean/Javert] needs something to do." |
And then furthermore, those songs that go against the book, and exist out of necessity, are amongst the best songs in the show. Empty Chairs, BHH, Stars...
But yeah, Turning can't be forgiven. The women already had that annoying call and answer thing in Drink With Me, anyway.
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Cassie
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 wrote: |
Ahh, lottielou, the man of whom you speak is Michael Ball. His voice is gorgeous, and he is adorable ... he was adorable (you probably don't want to see what has befallen him since, although I'm sure some here would be happy to provide visual assistance). |
Michael Ball is putting in a wonderful performance of Edna in 'Hairspray' it won him the Olivier Award and deservedly so. It looks like he's going to extend again until April '09 although there's been no official announcement yet. Hairspray doesn't really stretch him vocally but I saw him in one of his recent summer concerts and he is sounding on magnificent form and still makes my ticker skip a beat. 
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Brunnhilde
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I also like Adam Jacobs. Only seen him on youtube, but it s a full show (the one with Alex, Drew and Lea). His voice is beautiful and his look-out is also very good. And of course, I love Michael Ball, but I always felt sorry for his Valjean partners. You know, sewers. Not all Valjeans are that strong in real life...
I just love ECaET. It's totally sad and beautiful and almost like an aria. Never understood why opera tenors don't sing it on their concerts. I would die to hear it from Juan Diego Fl�rez.
I like musical!Marius better than book!Marius. Book!Marius is an ungrateful DOLT. Come on, Marius. Everyone died on the barricade expect you and Valjean. So? Little logic? Hopeless...
And he thinks a lot before going to the barricade. He seems a coward. Okay, after he decides, he turns into berserk mode, but I never understood his lamenting of civil war and such things.
And I don't like Bonaparte. I'd die for the Republic. With the boys.
But for ECAET, I forgive him everything.
(About Bring Him Home: when I first heard it on TAC video I was like: WTF?! I still find it OOC but it's so beautiful... who cares that book!Valjean would run out of the world from this song.)
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