Wandering Ranger
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| Eppie-Sue wrote: | | LovelyFantine wrote: | | This has been bugging me, maybe I'm just missing something: why in 'The Confrontation' does Valjean say he needs 3 days to get Cosette then he'll return to Javert, what's he planning to do with Cosette? He obviously doesn't either. |
Get her into a convent, presumably?!  It's a bit vague, but... that's the musical for you. |
I wouldn't have thought so since, having got away from Javert, he takes her to Rue Plumet where he lives not to a convent. I always thought it was simply an attempt to get Javert to back down, albeit a fruitless one since, as Javert says, Javert won't be swayed.
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Eppie-Sue
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| Wandering Ranger wrote: | | Eppie-Sue wrote: | | LovelyFantine wrote: | | This has been bugging me, maybe I'm just missing something: why in 'The Confrontation' does Valjean say he needs 3 days to get Cosette then he'll return to Javert, what's he planning to do with Cosette? He obviously doesn't either. |
Get her into a convent, presumably?! It's a bit vague, but... that's the musical for you. |
I wouldn't have thought so since, having got away from Javert, he takes her to Rue Plumet where he lives not to a convent. I always thought it was simply an attempt to get Javert to back down, albeit a fruitless one since, as Javert says, Javert won't be swayed. |
... Valjean does not live in the Rue Plumet in 1823, he lives in Montreuil-sur-mer. He promised Fantine that Cosette would live in his "protection", which indicates that Plan A is to raise her as a "father" and to look after her. Plan B, I suppose, could be something like the convent, considering he can hardly raise her himself. And I also think that "I pledge my word" is something that a character like Jean Valjean means and doesn't just say. To be fair, Bowman's JVJ would be the kind of character who'd only say it.
Technically, as there are nine years that pass between Montreuil-sur-mer/Montfermeil and Paris, the convent thing still stays true. I don't like that it's all so easy and wonderful how Cosette and Valjean enter Paris (compared to the book) and that we don't know anything about Cosette's youth and teenage years because that's where she loses the depth, but again, this is the musical.
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Wandering Ranger
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but this is the musical...
right! And since its the musical we are talking about and not the book its the musical we must take as our first point of reference. In the musical we have the following situation:
Valjean has promised Fantine that Cosette shall live in his protection and that she shall want for nothing. It is clear that he feels some guilt for having left Fantine to the mercy of the Factory Foreman and so raising Cosette is something he believes will absolve him of that guilt.
Then Javert, the only man who stands in his way of doing that enters and I guess it depends on which you think would be more important to Valjean. Either raising Cosette or doing another morally correct thing and going with Javert. The fact he does what he does suggests it is the former. The fact that the last thing Valjean says "there's a castle just waiting for you" suggests that, for the musical, he fully intends to take her to Rue Plumet or wherever he lives and that his sole intention was to take care of her himself. So the convent thing does not stay true.
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Eppie-Sue
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I don't actually understand the problem.
Valjean promises to take care of Cosette. Valjean is also very much aware of the fact that he is a criminal, that by revealing his true identity he has given Javert every right in the world to arrest him. Solely going by the musical, I don't believe he is bluffing when he says that he'll return if Javert gives him time to make sure that Cosette is safe and taken care of. He means it. And a safe way to give Cosette security would, in early 19th century, be putting her into a convent. There is not much else he could actually do. He doesn't, no, but things obviously change when Javert doesn't give him a chance to care for Cosette's future in the first place.
I have no idea what the musical wants to imply by "a castle just waiting for you", but I always assumed that would be Paris. Not an actual house he's thinking of. Because Valjean hasn't got a place to stay at this point. He's just left Montreuil-sur-mer, travelled to Montfermeil and taken Cosette with him on the way to Paris. Even in the context of the musical, this stays true. He does not live on the Rue Plumet. Or anywhere in Paris.
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LovelyFantine
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The thing that troubled me was that he sais he pledges his word that he'll return to javert in 3 days but he also just promised Fantine he'd take care of Cosette, that she'd want for nothing and he'd never let any harm come to her which suggest he'd raise her himself, not away even from where he can see her. And he seems to be a man of honour so he can't mean both.
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Wandering Ranger
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exactly, and that is the problem, Eppie Sue. His promise to Fantine would, in his mind, be more pressing than Javert which he proves is what he thinks by knocking him out. If he is to "raise her to the light" and do so "in my protection" a convent is not what he has in mind at any point.
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Eppie-Sue
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I do get the point very well. The problem is that you're seeing the Confrontation as one giant level. It's not. The question was about what he means when he says "Three days are all I need". At that point he is MAKING AN OFFER. That is BEFORE Javert denies him the chance, BEFORE Valjean says he will raise Cosette to the light, BEFORE Valjean knocks him out, BEFORE he finds Cosette and sees how bad her life is (which he doesn't know at the stage in Montreuil-sur-mer either). Valjean isn't someone who bluffs and who wants to escape legal justice like that. If he wanted to escape Javert, he could just knock him out immediately. Instead, he offers a compromise that will give him the chance to make sure that Cosette is well, because he promised Fantine he would do that. The fact that Javert doesn't accept it changes it all. But that doesn't change anything about what he means at the very point when he sings "three days are all I need". Of course he wants to try and get to Cosette and have her live in his protection (protection. not house.), but at the moment Javert traces him down at Fantine's death bed, everything changes. Yes, he promises Fantine to take care of Cosette, but taking care can mean anything and would, in those times, very likely be giving her the chance to be raised and cared for in a convent, given that he can't do it himself. Because he's a criminal and because he's very much aware of that.
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Wandering Ranger
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I am perfectly aware of all that re. the Confrontation thank you. I am simply saying that there is nohing IN THE MUSICAL to suggest a convent is what Valjean has in mind. For starters, if he knows Javert is chasing him (which he does from the Courtroom) that would be more dangerous in that he runs the risk of those in charge of the convent recognising him. Unless he chose one far away which would make no sense as why would he be intending to take her far away then come back himself when it is much simpler to go into hiding with her which is what he does having knocked Javert out. I am sorry but I do not accept your position that VJ cannot do it himself. Remember he was the mayor of the town and, whilst clearly that position does go out the window after the Courtroom, he would still have the financial means to bring Cosette up in a remote dwelling far away from prying eyes so he could do it himself. Therefore a convent is still unnecesssary, you're reading things into the piece which aren't there.
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l'ivrogne transfigur�
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Look, I don't understand what all the fuss is here - it's not that big an issue is it?
I have to agree with Eppie-Sue here. Yes, in the book Valjean takes Cosette to a convent, but she is not referencing the book. This is suggested as a possible course of action should Javert have given him three days to get Cosette, and is perfectly plausible given the time and situation. And, Wandering Ranger, your arguments seem extremely circular, if I may say so. You seem to be saying that this is all about a choice between being 'morally good' and going with Javert and keeping his promise to Fantine to look after Cosette. I don't entirely see how it is like that, because surely that's the reason he asks for three days, and I certainly don't see how this has any effect on whether or not he takes her to a convent.
Eppie-Sue has never said that Valjean cannot look after Cosette himself - but the question was what does he intend to do when he asks for those three days, she suggested the convent as a likely possibility. I cannot see anything wrong with that, and I don't understand how any of your arguments counter this.
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LovelyFantine
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Another thing, he says "Yes forbid me now to die, I will obey, I will try" to Cosette them promptly follows that but leaving his last confession and dying. So much for that! 
Another question, more answerable too! I saw the production with madelena Alberto, I'm not sure if it's the same case for most actresses who play Fantine, is the long hair her real hair, if so how do they get it all in a wig in such a short time?
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l'ivrogne transfigur�
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No, it's definitely not her real hair - her hair is naturally brown. They just change wigs. And this applies for all Fantines (I don't think anyone has natural hair like the wig used in the London production).
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Quique
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Apparently, Valjean is now a big, fat liar for saying he'll obey, he will try and then *dies*.
Some of you are worse than el Javert!! XD
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Elessar
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while we're talking about the ending finale; is there supposed to be quite a bit of time that passes between Valjean telling Marius is history and the Wedding? Valjean always seems to look like he did on the Barricade for the Confession but then real old for the ending.
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Vanessa20
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I'm not very good at remembering the timeline of the novel (and the musical's is different anyway, since Hugo's Valjean makes his confession after the wedding, not before), but I've always thought that a few months pass between the confession and the wedding. After all, in the standard staging, Marius still needs a cane to walk at the time of the confession, but by the wedding is fully recovered.
That obviously isn't enough time for Valjean to actually age, but I think his decline in health, caused by the loss of Cosette, is enough to account for the difference in his appearance. I do remember that in the novel, Hugo writes that before the wedding Valjean looked about fifty, but that losing Cosette deteriorated him so that by the time of his death he looked eighty.
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LovelyFantine
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| l'ivrogne transfigur� wrote: | | No, it's definitely not her real hair - her hair is naturally brown. They just change wigs. And this applies for all Fantines (I don't think anyone has natural hair like the wig used in the London production). |
Ah that makes sense, thanks.
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The Very Angry Woman
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I think when Alice Ripley returned to the show for the last time, she already had a short haircut, so the shorn look was actually her own hair -- just very mussed.
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natalialacantante
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This FAQ definitely helped me! I watched the concert version, and I was so fastinated with the music, keeping up with the plot was difficult for me, so the "What is the show about" anwer helped me out alot 
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LovelyFantine
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I got the CD for my birthday but it's the original cast recording and I wanted the 10th anniversary one, I know there's some stuff left out in the concert version so maybe it's worth keeping the one I've got. Could someone tell me exactly what's missing in the concert? All I know is the locket part from Lovely Ladies and the bit when the man tells Fantine she'll pay for what she did.
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MajorTordoArthur
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| LovelyFantine wrote: | | I got the CD for my birthday but it's the original cast recording and I wanted the 10th anniversary one, I know there's some stuff left out in the concert version so maybe it's worth keeping the one I've got. Could someone tell me exactly what's missing in the concert? All I know is the locket part from Lovely Ladies and the bit when the man tells Fantine she'll pay for what she did. |
Missing from the concert, AFAIK, is:
-The inn part in the prologue
-The locket part and a chorus part from Lovely Ladies
-The mentioned part when Bamatabois rages at Fantine
-Lots of stuff from the Runaway cart =/
-A part from when Mme. T confronts Cosette where she praises Eponine
-MOTH's introduction with the ensemble
-Most of when Valjean arrives at the Th�nardiers, except the first part
-Gavroche's second solo part in Look Down
-The entire Robbery
-Valjean's part in In My Life
-The intro of Plumet Attack between Eponine and Montparnasse
-All of At The Barricades except the instrumental intro/entr'acte
-A small section of the exchange between Javert and the students after Little People
-The intro to A Little Fall Of Rain (when Eponine returns)
-The "Courfeyrac, you take the watch.." part
-Dawn of Anguish is entirely cut, as is the Second attack/Gavroche's death
-Valjean's Confession is entirely cut
-The Th�nardiers confronting Marius at the wedding is cut as well
=> I hope I covered everything, if not please correct me!
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LovelyFantine
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Thanks! And are all these parts on the original cast CD?
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High-baritonne
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It depends on which "Original Cast" you have. The only recording of the entire show is the 1988 Studio Recording which has 3 CDs. The Original London Cast Recording omits much and is also a Concept Recording rather than an ordinary Cast Recording. The Original Broadway Cast Recording is for most parts the same as the Original London Cast Recording, although this does not include anything not being in the actual stage show.
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MajorTordoArthur
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| LovelyFantine wrote: | | Thanks! And are all these parts on the original cast CD? |
Actually, barely any of them are
Though the original cast does include I Saw Him Once and the complete Little People, which were omitted later. I adore those parts myself.
If you want the full show, buy the Complete Symphonic Recording. It's my personal favorite cast-wise too, though a lot of people might disagree with me there;~;
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The Very Angry Woman
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| MajorTordoArthur wrote: | | If you want the full show, buy the Complete Symphonic Recording. |
Full show as of 1988.
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LovelyFantine
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The one I have is the original London cast recording from 1985. Looking at the track list it seems to omit a lot of these things too but I'm wondering about parts from the songs that are there like the part in Lovely Ladies.
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Quique
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Not taking the current changes made in the 25th anniversary tour into consideration, the original London cast recording differs from the full 1988 version most fans are familiar with only slightly. The most significant differences are Gavroche's song, "Little People," and "I Saw Him Once" sung by Cosette, both cut from the show early in its London run.
[Disc 1]
-Opening bars are different. Some people call it the overture.
-"Stars" has a different orchestration intermixed with the more familiar one and it comes before "Look Down."
-"Look Down" consists of a chorus singing the same "uh, huh" heard at the top of the show by the convicts and the lines usually sung by Marius and Enjolras are sung by Combeferre and Feuilly to a slightly different melody.
-"Little People" after "Look Down." In the actual show, this song came before "Drink With Me."
[Disc 2]
-"I Saw Him Once" short song that segues into "In My Life."
And, of course, there are the many, many cuts I won't list, which makes the recording more of a highlights album. But those are the differences that make the London cast recording unique from the many recordings available.
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MajorTordoArthur
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| Quique wrote: | Not taking the current changes made in the 25th anniversary tour into consideration, the original London cast recording differs from the full 1988 version most fans are familiar with only slightly. The most significant differences are Gavroche's song, "Little People," and "I Saw Him Once" sung by Cosette, both cut from the show early in its London run.
[Disc 1]
-Opening bars are different. Some people call it the overture.
-"Stars" has a different orchestration intermixed with the more familiar one and it comes before "Look Down."
-"Look Down" consists of a chorus singing the same "uh, huh" heard at the top of the show by the convicts and the lines usually sung by Marius and Enjolras are sung by Combeferre and Feuilly to a slightly different melody.
-"Little People" after "Look Down." In the actual show, this song came before "Drink With Me."
[Disc 2]
-"I Saw Him Once" short song that segues into "In My Life."
And, of course, there are the many, many cuts I won't list, which makes the recording more of a highlights album. But those are the differences that make the London cast recording unique from the many recordings available. |
Well, the much slower Confrontation, rather different instrumentals in Dog Eats Dog and the slightly different Drink With Me also deserve a mention at least, if I may say so.
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Quique
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Correct. Slipped my mind (and didn't intentionally leave them out as your post suggests ), though I wouldn't include the Confrontation since the whole recording is slower than what most people are used to.
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MajorTordoArthur
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| Quique wrote: | | Correct. Slipped my mind (and didn't intentionally leave them out as your post suggests ), though I wouldn't include the Confrontation since the whole recording is slower than what most people are used to. |
The recording is indeed much slower overally, but in the others I never noticed it as much as there. Though I do like the slower Confrontation~.
Also, is it just me or is the ending (after they say "I swear to you I will be there") a tad longer on the OLC? =/
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