superdave
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The Part I'd like to see shortened.I dont know if it has been shortened, but You can cut so much out of the "In My Life/ Heart Full of Love" stuff. It's the weakest part of the whole score, in my opinion. Infact, there is so much in Les Mis you could do without. What part do you think should be cut, or do you think it should stay intact.
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Mademoiselle Lanoire
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First on the chopping block : Bring Him Home. Useless song which butchers the character.
I can't think of anything else besides that that truly *needs* to be cut, but there are some bits that are expendable.
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superdave
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No, No...You cant cut out "Bring Him Home" the sweetest song in the score. Nope, It almost brought me to tears. Yep, the whole drawn out Romance Thing with Marius and Cosette-- the whole Heart Full Of Love jazz...I really want to throw up...
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Mademoiselle Lanoire
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| superdave wrote: | | No, No...You cant cut out "Bring Him Home" the sweetest song in the score. Nope, It almost brought me to tears. Yep, the whole drawn out Romance Thing with Marius and Cosette-- the whole Heart Full Of Love...throw up... |
Saccharine, not sweet. And as much as you may hate ALFOR, it does fit with the show, and it does fit with the characters' personalities. That is not the case with BHH. It really needs to go - it's vastly more pointless and malapropos than anything else in the show.
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Orestes Fasting
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First on the chopping block for me: Turning and ALFOR.
AHFOL, though it can be saccharine when played by the wrong person, is actually an important plot point, unlike Eponine spending five minutes spewing corny lyrics at Marius instead of just getting on with it and dying. (Besides, didn't she just get a huge solo? Last I checked Cosette was more important to the plot than Eponine.) And Turning? Who wants to argue with me that that song has a point? Go on, I dare you.
The revival goes a long way towards making both AHFOL and ALFOR palatable, though, by refusing to treat either number like a gooey, doe-eyed love song.
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superdave
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You are right Turning... needs to go.
I hate that song.
I dont think AHFOL should be completely out, I just think the whole Cosette scene needs to be shortened. I dont know, I just think it's really weak--and I think the only reason why I think so--is because Its TOO LONG.
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Quique
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"The Runaway Cart."
Not that it's pointless or that it doesn't serve the story, cause it does, but I just find it to be incredibly dull. Though I'd probably shorten it even more instead of cutting it.
I really like "Turning."  So, I'd keep that.
I like ALFOR but I agree that it's a bit much for the character of Eponine, especially after "On My Own," and the 5 seconds Marius has to absorb and get over what has just happened afterwards has always been very awkward to me.
I'd never cut "Bring Him Home." Grr.
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Orestes Fasting
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| Quique wrote: | "The Runaway Cart."
Not that it's pointless or that it doesn't serve the story, cause it does, but I just find it to be incredibly dull. Though I'd probably shorten it even more instead of cutting it. |
It tends to seem even more random and nonsensical when the expository bit at the beginning gets cut, though. Me, I'd cut it entirely; the only purpose it serves in the musical is to set up Javert's suspicion of the mayor and the revelation that a false Valjean has been arrested. And there are plenty of ways to set that up without a dull musical number that nobody understands, that involves the entire cast running around the stage in cheesy slow-motion. If Fauchelevent never reappears to save Valjean's butt in thanks for rescuing him, why bother keeping it in?
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Quique
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I always thought it would've been better to simply have Javert recognize Valjean instead of having the whole overly dramatic runaway cart sequence right after Fantine's arrest. And it comes just as the audience gets sucked into Fantine's developing story. It's quite jarring, to say the least, and not in a good way.
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christinadaae
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| Orestes Fasting wrote: |
AHFOL, though it can be saccharine when played by the wrong person, is actually an important plot point, unlike Eponine spending five minutes spewing corny lyrics at Marius instead of just getting on with it and dying. (Besides, didn't she just get a huge solo? Last I checked Cosette was more important to the plot than Eponine.) And Turning? Who wants to argue with me that that song has a point? Go on, I dare you.
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Challenge accepted.
This song shows that the show's title refers not only to the main characters whose lives are being messed up, but also to all the citizens of France. The woman are asking, why are we fighting, what are we doing with this "revolution", nothing will never change anyway.
Sure, the show would not suffer much without it, but it not only show us the citizens of France, but it also provides a segue for the score.
I agree that ALFOR could be trimmed a bit. Its a bit boring and drawn out.
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MsDivaKate
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I find Turning to be quite pointless.
To me its really just a filler and it serves to give the female ensemble something else to do.
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Eponine93
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Turning definitely should go. I also think On My Own should most definitely be shortened... the second verse should definitely be condensed or even totally cut. I Dreamed A Dream COULD be condensed, but I would hate to see that happen.
However, if OMO was shortened.... we'd never hear the end of it from the Eppie-boppers.
I think A Little Fall of Rain is very important, because it really illustrates Marius and Eponine's relationship. If you see a good Marius, his feelings for Eponine are made really clear. A verse or so can definitely be cut out though.
Finally, I think Dog Eats Dog should definitely be cut. It's a very boring song, not catchy at all, and very unnessecary. I can see how its supposed to be comic relief but I just find it creepy. The whole sewer scene is just so overlong.
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kittengoespop
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I beg to differ about Dog Eats Dog. First off, it's certainly not comic relief. It shows you that Thenardier is more than just comic relief, that under the humorous exterior lies a completely amoral and callous individual. And, Orestes will agree, it's the most accurate to the book representation of M. Thenardier.
In addition, it also sets up the stealing of Marius' ring.
I hate the way it's cut in the School Edition. I played Thenardier, and... I hated the way it's cut in the School Edition.
I would cut ALFOR, because the song drags on. Incessantly. And puts a grinding halt to the action at the barricades. I also think "At the End of the Day" goes on a little long.
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Quique
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Um...there would be no point to "On My Own" without the second verse. In my opinion, that's what makes the song even a little bit interesting. It would be really dumb if all she did was daydream about being with Marius. At least we are let into her thought process and her mental strength in cutting all the bull and accepting reality adds depth to the character and makes her death all the more tragic.
AFOR is actually useless compared to OMO. Though I wouldn't cut it either.
DED is an excellent number. It's not meant to serve as comedy relief, which is why it's so great. It gives us a serious look at Thenardier for once. I especially love the way Norman Large and David Benoit played that scene...so creepy, disturbed, and hopeless.
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Orestes Fasting
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I don't actually see Dog Eats Dog as comical; I see it as the scene that makes absolutely crystal clear to the audience that Th�nardier isn't a lovable scoundrel--he's a sinister, opportunistic bastard willing to rob corpses to appease his own greed. It's supposed to be creepy and unfunny.
I also think the revival has proved once and for all that cutting verses from major songs is not a good idea. Think how lopsided Fantine's death and Castle on a Cloud sound with verses sliced out, now consider that OMO is structurally and melodically identical to Come to Me. It wouldn't sound very good. In My Life and Every Day are really the only songs that bore up well with random verses taken out; I'm not happy about the In My Life cuts (which were there before the revival and which I've hated for a while) because Cosette needs all the character development she can get, but the songs don't sound odd to the ear. I'm rarely jarred when watching or listening to the cut version of that scene, just abstractly pissed that B&S think Cosette is so expendable.
I do think Master of the House might not suffer too much from a cut or two, but I would really have to see that in action to be sure. It's one of the longest songs in the show, but finding a part to cut would be tricky. Maybe going straight from "Tells a saucy tale, makes a little stir, customers appreciate a bon-viveur" to "Everybody loves a landlord, everybody's bosom friend." It'd be a shame to take out some of the only lyrics in the show that are better than plain ol' serviceable, but it's quite a long song.
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Kaiana
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kittengoespop, what is the quote in your sig from? I KNOW I've heard it before....
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EponineBarker
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I probably would cut a little of "Every Day" and maybe AHFOL.
I just saw the revival recently (two weeks ago) and I was a little dissapointed that they cut some of IML. But I was really upset that they cut COAC! It's a really nice song!
| Quote: | | I think A Little Fall of Rain is very important, because it really illustrates Marius and Eponine's relationship. If you see a good Marius, his feelings for Eponine are made really clear. A verse or so can definitely be cut out though. |
Like Adam Jacobs. I really liked how he did ALFOR. You could hear the shock and confusion in his voice as Eponine was pouring her heart out to him. He just had no clue how to shelter and comfort her as she was dying.
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Quique
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I remember back when "Turning" used to end with two of the women putting their arms around each other and fading off into the distance with heads down as their voices echoed away and the lights dimmed. It gave me chills. I wanted to curse at the stage when I saw they changed it at a 10th anniversary performance I attended in 1997.
I was hoping the stupid cart thing was temporary but they never did change it back to what it used to be. Don't know how it ends now. I hate all the changes. I long to see the show just as it was in from 1987-1996. The changes are subtle at best to most but they make a world of a difference to me. 
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kitty17794
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Uhm...no. "In My Life/A Heart Full Of Love" is very important to the show. Without it, there's no relationship at all between Marius and Cosette.
Nothing needs to be cut from Les Mis, it's fine the way it is...they were stupid enough to make huge cuts in it already with the revival.
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The Very Angry Woman
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| Kaiana wrote: | | kittengoespop, what is the quote in your sig from? I KNOW I've heard it before.... |
Beauty & the Beast. Actually a line that was ad-libbed by David Ogden Stiers in the recording studio.
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Crapgame13
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| Eponine93 wrote: | | I think A Little Fall of Rain is very important, because it really illustrates Marius and Eponine's relationship. If you see a good Marius, his feelings for Eponine are made really clear. A verse or so can definitely be cut out though. |
to me the musical has always made this relationship more than it should be.
There is a scene in the book where Eponine comes to talk and he's so enamoured with thoughts of Cosette he gets annoyed by Ep interrupting him. Marius tolerated Eponine and then when she turned out to be Thenardier's daughter wanted to protect her, but they were never pals or close in his mind.
Which I find odd, because Gavroche is a much more endearing character in the book and annoying in the musical.
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AndrewShatterhand
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| Quique wrote: |
I was hoping the stupid cart thing was temporary but they never did change it back to what it used to be. Don't know how it ends now. I hate all the changes. I long to see the show just as it was in from 1987-1996. The changes are subtle at best to most but they make a world of a difference to me. |
What was the difference between the two?
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Eponine93
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When I meant the second verse on OMO, I meant the one that begins: "In the rain the pavement shines like silver..." It's pretty much a reiteration of the very first verse.
Just for clarification, I think the verse that begins: "And I know, it's only in my mind..." is musically the most interesting part of Les Mis. Out of the entire score, it's probably one of my favorite parts.
If it was up to me, I would shorten OMO and restore all the changes to Come To Me. When I saw the revival I was very excited for Come To Me, because I saw Lea Salonga, and it was a huge letdown that it was cut so drastically.
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Quique
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| AndrewShatterhand wrote: | | Quique wrote: |
I was hoping the stupid cart thing was temporary but they never did change it back to what it used to be. Don't know how it ends now. I hate all the changes. I long to see the show just as it was in from 1987-1996. The changes are subtle at best to most but they make a world of a difference to me. |
What was the difference between the two? |
The revised version was basically the same except it had the cart used in "Do You Hear the People Sing?" which was used to cart one of the women in and out of the scene. Then they changed it again and only had the empty cart. They eliminated the part where two of the women stand at opposite ends of the revolve, then come together putting their arms around each other in consolation, and finally walking slowly off toward the back of the stage with heads hung.
It wasn't a huge change but the original ending added a nice touch of poignancy. It brought a tear to my eyes every time.
I don't know how it ends in the revival but the women just exited the stage with the cart toward the wings when I saw the tour last year.
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LittleGavroche
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I have never liked "the Thernadier Waltz of Treachery." Only when it is done right do I actually find it amusing. And even then, it's too long a song to convey a simple idea.
I would never take out any of "In My Life" or "A Heart Full of Love," in fact, I'd probably make them longer. I love the way "In My Life," establishes the relationship between Cosette and Valjean. I'd have liked to see more of it.
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Jordan
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A Heart Full of Love can still be shortened. Either that or in order to get to the point a bit better or quicker, they need a new song to focus on the relationship between Valjean and Cosette, Cosette and Marius and Marius and Eponine rather than the two songs.
Turning, bin it.
One verse each out of Master of the House and Beggars at the Feast.
However, the oboe solo needs to be played at the original tempo. It's currently rushed. It's a real time to be slow, have impact and reflect but when you get through it in 90 seconds, it kills the effect and may as well not be there.
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Orestes Fasting
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| GayBoy wrote: | | However, the oboe solo needs to be played at the original tempo. It's currently rushed. It's a real time to be slow, have impact and reflect but when you get through it in 90 seconds, it kills the effect and may as well not be there. |
You'd think that, as they cut a "verse" of the oboe solo, they'd have time to play it at the proper tempo. Penny-pinchers. The quicker tempos and the halving of almost every instrumental intro annoys me far more than some of the verse cuts.
There needs to be more focus on Valjean's relationship with Cosette, period. Bring Him Home is a lovely song as a standalone but doesn't fit into the plot well; B&S would've made better use of those three minutes if the lyrics had emphasized that Valjean was saving Marius to ensure his daughter's future, instead of being an altruistic prayer for the safety of some kid he'd never met. That would've connected better with Every Day, Valjean's Confession, and the Finale. As the show stands, if the Valjean actor is too brusque with Cosette in In My Life, there is no sense of a close relationship between them until he starts grieving over losing her. (Alexander Gemignani, I'm looking at you.)
Cutting BHH would be inconceivable--timing-wise, it provides a nice respite from all the battle scenes, and gives Valjean a much-needed Act II solo. Plus it's just a nice song. But I would not be at all averse to an overhaul of the lyrics. (I have heard that Boublil and Kretzmer originally had more appropriate subject matter in mind, but when they heard the tune Sch�nberg ripped off Puccini--I mean, came up with *cough*--they decided it was better suited for a prayer than for more moral conflict.)
Never thought of cutting a verse of Beggars at the Feast but it's a good idea. Since it's more a reprise than a full song, it wouldn't have that awful 'lopsided' feeling that Come to Me and Castle on a Cloud do. Plus then there might be time to sneak a few lines of the Marius-Th�nardiers exchange back in--I've always liked the matching irony of the lines "'Cause He's dead as the stiffs at my feet" and "I saw the corpse clear as I'm seeing you."
Oh, and can we PLEASE either do something to make Drink With Me less pointless or just put it out of its misery. Much as I love me some barricade boys, and enjoyed seeing Aaron Lazar and Drew Sarich bounce off each other in that scene, both on the tour and in the revival it struck me as a waste of space. It could be put to use expanding upon Grantaire's character and his relationship with Enjolras--especially if the reprise were brought back and Grantaire were given the "If I die, I die with you" line--but as it stands? Pointless. Even as an interlude to the battle scenes it gets upstaged by Bring Him Home.
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eponine5
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Personally, I think that if they were to make any more changes, it would be to put back cuts that have been made rather than make new ones. Sure there are some songs that are unecessary, but then again half of the actual novel is technically unecessary to the plot, and I would never dream of reading one of those abridged versions. I think that both the book and the musical need those random moments of reflection and emhasis on characters simply to make it an enjoyable experience to read or watch. If you just want to know the story, read the synopsis. 
Turning is needed because, as people have said, it shows the impact of the barricades to the people as well as the 5 characters left standing, and also because it shows the passage of time. Marius takes more than a day to recover. Besides, would you like to watch a show that went straight from Javert's suicide to ECAET?
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Quique
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The only part I feel is awkward is the runaway cart scene. Other than than, I'd never touch any of it.
I highly disagree about some parts being pointless. It's exactly those moments of reflection that set the mood and make the show so beautiful and expressive on a different level.
I agree that the cut verses, faster tempos, and cut intros have degraded the show. Again, all of those little snippets take away from the emotional build-up of key moments. The show feels rushed and the audience no longer has time to absorb what the characters are going through or settle into the mood of a scene.
The new orchestrations are just the final straw. Apart from the beautiful story, they are what MADE the show so emotionally powerful to me. Sigh...the show has gone through too much butchering. So sad.
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