bigR
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things you got awfully wrongIs is a long show, with a lot of characters and the lyrics are not always easy to get,. That's why I'm sure that I'm not the only one who totally misunderstood some part of the plot the 1st time i went to see Les Mis.
I have forgotten about other smaller mistakes, but the recent discussions about 1830/1832 reminded me of something I really got awfully wrong.
I went to the theater conviced that the show was set in the french revolution *shame shame*. I actually did not know that they staged a revolution in the play, but I just had that given idea that the poor kid on the playbill was somehow related with the french revolution.
When I saw the Toulon 1815 i though: "o.k. maybe there will be a flash-back" *more shame*, but I quickly realized that the story was set in the 19th century. All right.
And then came those guys planning a revolution. And I inmediately assumed that we were in 1830 ( it wasn't that crazy. They said it was "ten years later" but that could have been aproximate. And then, I had recently studied the 1830 revolutions in school, and nobody's ever heard of the '32 insurrection).
But the funny thing is, since I assumed it was 1830 i was absolutely certain that the revolunionaries would win. My mood watching everything unfold was the exact oposite of fanfic "we are all going to die pointless deaths".
I was a little bit surprised when I saw that things started to turn wrong at the barricade. And I was even more surprised when the mood became gloomier and gloomier. But I still though: "just trying to create some dramatic tension for the people who don't know about french history".
Actually, when the revolutionaries started to die I still though they were wining and it was just some overly dramatic portray of the fight, but at the end we would see that they had won.
When the battle music stopped and everyone looked dead I started wondering what the hell was happening, BUT believe it or not, I was still convinced that the leader and some other people were alive and wining at the other side of the barricade!! (i was starting to be stubborn, I know)
When the barricade turned and I saw enjolras hanging down I remember it as a total shock.
But I still managed to razionalize it.
Maybe the revolution won but at that particular barricade they had awful bad luck and they all ended up dead.
Then came turning, and ECAET, and i still did not doubt for a single moment that the revolutionaries had won. I just kept retionalizing throught the tears. "o.K. I see what they mean. Although the revolution won, daily live for the poor people did not change a little bit (turning), and marius wonders what his friend's sacrifice was for because they did not get a republic and things did not change very much (ECAET)". No, I did not even stop to think that it seemed a very complex message to convey to the audience without ever telling them about the outcome of the revolution.
The show ended, and I was still convinced that the revolutionaries had won. I bought the OBC, went back to the show... and still kept thinking that they had won. Of course I bought the Brick... but until I got to the barricades i was utterly convinced, for several months that the revolutionaries had won.
And the worst thing is that, since when you get a strong first impresion about something it kind of stays inside you forever, no matter how many times I see or listen to it now, I still can't really believe that they did not won and i guess that the fall of the barricade will always be a small shock to me...
Now. Maybe no one had something so big so wrong. But I'm sure I'm not the only one who misunderstood some part of the plot?[/i]
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Quique
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Well, I first saw the show when I was only 12 years old, and had listened to the Broadway and London cast recordings since I was 6. I remember loving just the music for a long time--I had no idea what the show was about until I saw it in 1989. It all came together then.
I did not think it was about the French revolution because I did not even know what that was at the time, lol. But I recall not really getting a few scenes here and there. Like I've said before, I believe most of the audience at any given performance has no clue what the hell is going on, cause most audiences want to be spoonfed the plot. I think Les Mis makes you think. Maybe not as much as a Sondheim show, but the way the plot is delivered is highly reliant on the lyrics. Most people get distracted and fail to catch an important lyric or two.
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Catherine
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Erm, well I did think Eponine was pronounced Epo9, and Valjean was pronounced Valgene, but I don't think I made any plot errors...
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lesmisloony
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| bigR wrote: | | They said it was "ten years later" but that could have been aproximate. |
Well, you know... they are. Just not the way you thought. Because, as well all know, IT WAS NINE YEARS LATER DAMMIT.
Umm, when I first saw the show, I thought Marius came to realise he loved Eponine just as she died, and that during Drink with Me decided he might as well go back to Cosette now that Eponine was dead. But I maintain that that's not a hard mistake to make with the way the show is written.
I also pronounced all the names wrong until I got the CSR in the eighth grade. Most memorably, "Thin-are-dee-er," "On-whole-russ," and a constant fluctuation between "Mis-er-ab-luh" and "Mis-er-ab." And I'm still not entirely sure why there's no "bluh" at the end according to the official site, (as my French-English dictionary does have the "bluh") but whatever, I'll go with it.
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mastachen
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| Catherine wrote: | | Erm, well I did think Eponine was pronounced Epo9, and Valjean was pronounced Valgene, but I don't think I made any plot errors... |
Me too!
I always thought it was pronounced "Gene Val-gene"
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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| mastachen wrote: |
I always thought it was pronounced "Gene Val-gene" |
Now I'm totally imagining a tap-dancing Valjean and ... wait, that makes no sense.
Hahahaha!
Lemme see, do I have any good ones?
There was the whole French Revolution bit, but that seems to be common, and that got cleared up right away.
More in the realm of "misheard lyrics":
"Everybody raise a glass to the Master of the House"
got turned into
"Everbody hates that bastard, the Master of the House."
There were a lot of holes in the plot when I was first introduced to it, as I was introduced via the TAC...
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EponineMNFF
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| lesmisloony wrote: |
I also pronounced all the names wrong until I got the CSR in the eighth grade. Most memorably, "Thin-are-dee-er..." |
So guilty. So, so guilty.
I'm also very guilty of thinking there was a character named EnjoRlas for like a year. So embarrassing.
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Catherine
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 wrote: |
"Everbody hates that bastard, the Master of the House."
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I actually think thats a better line. Doesn't really fit into the rest of the song, but ah well.
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Orestes Fasting
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For everyone who ever thought Les Mis was set in the French Revolution, I can do you one better. Waaaay back before I was familiar with the plot or characters at all, and only knew Les Mis as "that book my friends keep talking about," someone mentioned some character called Fantine and a tavern-keeper's wife. I assumed they were the same person, and so my first mental association with the name Fantine was... Mme Defarge from A Tale of Two Cities.
The thought of Fantine knitting baby clothes for Cosette still makes me giggle sometimes.
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Lara
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| lesmisloony wrote: | | and a constant fluctuation between "Mis-er-ab-luh" and "Mis-er-ab." And I'm still not entirely sure why there's no "bluh" at the end according to the official site, (as my French-English dictionary does have the "bluh") but whatever, I'll go with it. |
I did that too! I had listened to the music since I was tiny, heard my parents pronounce it correctly, and then add a "bluh" because it looked like it would be said that way.
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lesmisloony
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| EponineMNFF wrote: | | I'm also very guilty of thinking there was a character named EnjoRlas for like a year. So embarrassing. |
I've had some good misspellings, too. Some of which were corrected embarrassingly recently...
Muchisetta
Faunchelevant
Chapmathieu
Guelemer
Thomolyes
And yes, only last fall did I learn that I had Bahorel and Bossuet confused...
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Vanessa20
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Before I saw the show onstage, I thought "Bring Him Home" was sung after the fall of the barricades and that Valjean was praying for the wounded Marius to survive. I had a basic knowledge of the plot, so when I saw a video clip of Valjean singing over an unconscious Marius, that was the conclusion I jumped to. My mom made the same assumption. In fact, I think she STILL thinks the song comes after the battle, even though she's seen the show three times times now.
I also used to think that Fantine died from being beaten by Bamatabois, since the musical's libretto isn't very clear about her illness.
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Quique
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I thought Fantine was pronounced FAN-teen. :S
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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Enroljas.
Nuff said.
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EponineMNFF
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 wrote: | Enroljas.
Nuff said. |
HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA!
You win. Hahahaahahahaaa!
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LesMisForever
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When i went to see it, i didn't know that there was a revolution involved in it.
Amazingly, i didn't notice the year 1815, or the 10 years later. Of course i have seen them, but didn't really register. That was my first ever musical, and i was totally mesmerized by everything i am seeing.
From the way the events were unfolding, it was very clear to me that this wasn't the "Big One", but i intially thought that it was the "Paris Commune", where the revolutionarries after some initial victories got beaten very badly, and the "blood of the martyrs" did indeed flowed.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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| EponineMNFF wrote: | | curlyhairedsoprano91 wrote: | Enroljas.
Nuff said. |
HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA!
You win. Hahahaahahahaaa! |
If that's not bad enough, it was pronounced something like ...
In-(really hard french r)OLL-eeeyas.
Mhm.
Fan-TEEN was an early one, like Quique's.
And at first the Thenardier's were "THER-nar-dyur," and then "Turnaday" (but that's 'cause a friend of mine pronounces it like that ...).
Yeah, I used to be dumb.
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broadwaybirdie
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| Lara wrote: | | lesmisloony wrote: | | and a constant fluctuation between "Mis-er-ab-luh" and "Mis-er-ab." And I'm still not entirely sure why there's no "bluh" at the end according to the official site, (as my French-English dictionary does have the "bluh") but whatever, I'll go with it. |
I did that too! I had listened to the music since I was tiny, heard my parents pronounce it correctly, and then add a "bluh" because it looked like it would be said that way. |
hahhaha yeah, I didn't really know for a long time, so I just said "Les Mis". It made me sound like an insider, and no one knew that I really just didn't know how to pronounce it:)
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EponineMNFF
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Hm... I'm trying to think of more.
I didn't understand what "Some bourgeois two-a-penny thing" meant for SO LONG. So long.
Oh, this one is kind of embarrassing. Haha. I listened to the OLC first, without reading the plot description or anything. All I had seen were pictures. When I first heard A Little Fall of Rain, I randomly associated it with the picture of Come To Me, so had Eponine and Fantine confused for a while. And when I heard On My Own, I thought Eponine was in jail. I have no idea where that one came from. Hahah.
Fan-TEEN isn't too bad. I mean, it's pretty newbish, but I don't think I'd burst out laughing at someone who said it.
Oh I had SO much trouble with the "Les MiseraBLUH" thing too. Haha.
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mezzo_soprano
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Well I did the Fan-TEEN thing for a while. And pronounced the title as it looks.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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| EponineMNFF wrote: | | And when I heard On My Own, I thought Eponine was in jail. I have no idea where that one came from. Hahah. |
Ohmygosh. I totally thought Eponine was in jail at some point, too. I guess it's 'cause of that picture for AHFOL ... it's popular on Eppybopper fansites, I think it's of Frances? Thisun:
And it totes looks like she's in jail.
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Quique
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 wrote: | | EponineMNFF wrote: | | And when I heard On My Own, I thought Eponine was in jail. I have no idea where that one came from. Hahah. |
Ohmygosh. I totally thought Eponine was in jail |
LOL!!!! XD
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lesmisloony
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| Quote: | | That was my first ever musical, |
Mine too! Mine too.
I remember having absolutely no idea what was going on, and desperately flipping through the playbill with my mom during intermission to try to figure out what on earth we were seeing. And after the show the only melody we could remember was Castle on a Cloud, and it didn't come to us until days later...
I also said to my mom (this was the sixth grade, okay?) on the way out of the theatre, "You know, I think when he went into the trial thingy? The guy they used to look like him was probably the same guy who played him at the beginning." And my mom was like, "No... they had one guy playing that character the whole time, hon." Little Loony: "But... the guy at the end was so much older! He had white hair!"
*shakes head sadly*
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Monsieur D'Arque
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I was seven when I first saw Les Mis.
"Who am I? I'm Jumbo John!"
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LesMisForever
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Well, when i saw "Les Miserables" i was 30 years old, and i had a reasonable knowledge of the French history, and i was familiar with big "French Revolution", and the ones in 1848, and the "Paris Commune" in 1871.
The plot didn't really confuse me. I just got little bit overwhelmed by the introduction of many characters at once during "Look Down" in Paris. Other than that, i didn't have problem with following the story.
But, as i said, i was already an old guy when i saw it 
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Electricity24601
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I missed little plot things, like JVJ shooting the sniper at the barricade, why in the world Thenardier had Marius's ring, and what exactly was happening during the Paris robbery.
And the usual pronunciation difficulties.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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Also:
Claquesous got turned into Clouseau. Like, Inspector Clouseau.
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Orestes Fasting
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| Electricity24601 wrote: | I missed little plot things, like JVJ shooting the sniper at the barricade, why in the world Thenardier had Marius's ring, and what exactly was happening during the Paris robbery.
And the usual pronunciation difficulties. |
You mean all the stuff they kept as a (slightly changed) holdover from the book, and then didn't explain properly. 
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bigR
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| LesMisForever wrote: | Well, when i saw "Les Miserables" i was 30 years old, and i had a reasonable knowledge of the French history, and i was familiar with big "French Revolution", and the ones in 1848, and the "Paris Commune" in 1871.
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Knowledge of french history was precisely my problem! I inconscioulsy identified the revolution in the play with one of the revolutions I had studied at school without even stop to thing about it. That's why I though it was 1830 and was stubbornly convinced for several months (in spite of going back to see the show and listening obsessively to the OBC) that the revolutionaries had won... 
Well, nobody else seems to have misunderstood the plot as much as I did (I probably didn't get the sniper thing either, but this seems much more normal. I'm sure 99% of the audience does not get it). No wonder since I am kind of prone to make total gratuitous assumptions about random Les Mis things...
An example: I was convinced for ages (years after having see the play and read the book and watch the "stage by stage" and see old 19th illustrations, etc) that the poor kid on the programme was a nondescript poor BOY. Then, I changed my mind and I decided it was Gavroche or one of his brothers, and then again a nondescript poor boy. Not even once I though about a girl, and even less about Cosette.
i don't even remember how I discovered it was her...
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lizavert
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I remember that the first time I saw the TAC, I took the "Paris, 10 years later" thing litarally.
Plus I didn't understand the sniper thing either. *shrugs*
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Quique
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I remember Eponine's death confusing me back when I first heard the OLC album. I was like, WHAAAA???? She got shot? Why? When? Why is she singing SO BEAUTIFULLY if she just got pierced with a bullet???
I remember loving the old crone so much. I thought her voice was creepy/sketchy/demented. I imagined her as some crackho.
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lesmisloony
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Which old crone, Quique? From Lovely Ladies or Look Down? I love them both...
As for the sniper thing? I don't get that unless I'm looking specifically at it during the scene. And I didn't get the whole Bahorel's red vest thing until Orestes explained it... But seriously, who could? You'd have to be some kind of loaded freak who saw the show every weekend or something... 
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Quique
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From Lovely Ladies. But the Look Down one is hilarious too. Especially when they used to have her knocked down to the floor and kicked by the prostitute, lol.
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lesmisloony
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Ohman, dude, when I saw the show in January Gavroche bitchslapped a beggar. I was like  ...?
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Catherine
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I also thought in the Confrontation, Valjeans line was "Then I'll retire, I pledge my word..." and I was like "Why is he retiring? How does that help Javert (I used to really over pronouce the t, silly Catherine)
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bare24601!
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The first song I heard from Les Miserables was "On My Own", and I thought that the man she was singing about was literally blind from "And although I know that he is bliiiind" 
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Kragey
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| lesmisloony wrote: | | Ohman, dude, when I saw the show in January Gavroche bitchslapped a beggar. I was like ...? |
Why doesn't crazy goodness like this happen when I go to the theater?
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Orestes Fasting
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| Kragey wrote: | | lesmisloony wrote: | | Ohman, dude, when I saw the show in January Gavroche bitchslapped a beggar. I was like ...? |
Why doesn't crazy goodness like this happen when I go to the theater? |
Well to be fair, they originally added that blocking because Drew-as-the-beggar used to menace Gavroche with his crutch, and Minarik-as-the-beggar used to creep up on him making "I WILL EAT YOUR BRAINS" gestures. The kid was just defending himself.
...not that that detracts from the crack at all.
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lesmisloony
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| Quote: | they originally added that blocking because Drew-as-the-beggar used to menace Gavroche with his crutch, and Minarik-as-the-beggar used to creep up on him making "I WILL EAT YOUR BRAINS" gestures. The kid was just defending himself.
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Hmm... no points for guessing why I didn't notice any of that...
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Orestes Fasting
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| lesmisloony wrote: | | Quote: | they originally added that blocking because Drew-as-the-beggar used to menace Gavroche with his crutch, and Minarik-as-the-beggar used to creep up on him making "I WILL EAT YOUR BRAINS" gestures. The kid was just defending himself.
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Hmm... no points for guessing why I didn't notice any of that... |
...because Minarik had already left by January, and Trafton didn't do anything near as interesting in that part?
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lesmisloony
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That too.
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Catherine
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Because you were fixated on Montparnasse?
Just a guess...
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lesmisloony
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^^ Veddy intuitive.
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Catherine
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Well, its one of the only scenes he's in, so I thought you;d be just staring at him like "giosnhwrrownhionrherionhiren"
I can just imagine actually:
Loony: gnusinjuwgjuwrnhwnhjnnmontparnassedjkgnkowngjrwmontparnassenmgjkw
Friend: Omgosh Loony! Look at Marius!
Loony: I don't have time for Marius. I'm looking at Montparnasse!
Friend: But he's just collapsed!
Loony: Well call an ambulance then! Sheesh.
Friend: Look, he's not moving!
Loony: Well I'm concentrating on someone who is! Monty.. what are you doing! Don't go over there! Who cares if he's not moving?! Don't go offstage! DON'T!!!
Maybe thats a bit too loony though....
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Brackynn
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| Monsieur D'Arque wrote: | I was seven when I first saw Les Mis.
"Who am I? I'm Jumbo John!" |
You have no idea how hard I just laughed.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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Oh. One more thing I got awfully wrong. But only for like a week.
"Yeah, Marius belonged with Cosette because they're both adorable and in love, but it must have been so hard for Eponine. Because she and Marius are like ... BEST friends."
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Quique
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^ Can that really be considered "getting it wrong"?
Now, obviously, you'd be totally wrong if you read the novel and still thought they were best friends forever. But they are sort of written that way onstage, so it's not really wrong in the context of the musical.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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Especially when you're introduced via the TAC, which probably involves the most Eppybopper-friendly Eponine ever and one of the most Eppybopper-friendly Marii ever. It's the only way to explain the ALFOR performance. I think.
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Vanessa20
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Random thought on EppyboppersI've always had a feeling that some of the Eppybopper stuff out there might be partly due to Lea Salonga and Judy Kuhn's looks. Judy was already in her forties in the TAC and her Cosette days were really behind her, whereas Lea was so young and beautiful. I've always suspected that the main reason why they cast Judy in the TAC was that they knew they wanted Michael Ball as Marius, and they had to cast an older Cosette to go with him so Marius wouldn't look like a pedophile. So when girls are introduced to the musical via the TAC, they don't see any good reason why Marius should choose the dumpier woman (no offense to Judy, I mean it relatively) over the young, hot one.
That's my say on the subject. As if there wasn't enough talk about Eponine on this forum (and everywhere else) already.
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lesmisloony
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| Quote: | Loony: gnusinjuwgjuwrnhwnhjnnmontparnassedjkgnkowngjrwmontparnassenmgjkw
Friend: Omgosh Loony! Look at Marius!
Loony: I don't have time for Marius. I'm looking at Montparnasse!
Friend: But he's just collapsed!
Loony: Well call an ambulance then! Sheesh.
Friend: Look, he's not moving!
Loony: Well I'm concentrating on someone who is! Monty.. what are you doing! Don't go over there! Who cares if he's not moving?! Don't go offstage! DON'T!!!
Maybe thats a bit too loony though....
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Nope, I'd say that's about right. When I saw the show, I kept hissing "Ohmigosh sexxx!" under my breath. (At JOJ as much as at Monty, though.) The people around me started giving me angry looks after about ten minutes. And that was before Lovely Ladies, where Montparnasse was playing a pimp...
I almost fell out of my chair when Montparnasse grabbed Cosette during The Robbery and Marius rescued her. I know I've told that story before, but it pretty much blew my mind. In an awesome way. Cos it was right in the height of my Montparnasse/Cosette obsession.
...I did a lot of flailing that day...
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Kragey
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If I was running by looks, yeah, I'd prefer Lea. But when it comes to performances...well, we all know I don't care much for her Eponine, and I love Judy's Cosette. So between the two, I'd end up fangirling Cosette.
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Quique
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I adore Judy's Cosette, as well. <3
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Vanessa20
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I love her too. I just don't think she was physically ideal for the part by the time of the TAC.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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I think you make a good point, Vanessa ... although I do honestly think Judy was/is pretty, the makeup was unflattering and she looked old for the part. I wonder if there would be such disparity if they'd cast a younger Cosette, or a stereotypically prettier one ... or if they'd cast Frances as Eponine, who is also very pretty but somehow less "Eppybopper-friendly" than Lea.
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mastachen
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Frances Ruffelle is the Demi Moore of musical theatre.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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How so?
I always thought she was more the Drew Barrymore of musical theatre ... but I guess that was just based off physical likeness.
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mastachen
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| curlyhairedsoprano91 wrote: | How so?
I always thought she was more the Drew Barrymore of musical theatre ... but I guess that was just based off physical likeness. |
I was going by hotness.
Demi Moore is 50 and sizzling. Frances Ruffelle is pretty damn hot herself.
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lesmisloony
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The chief problem with Judy or anybody, including Ruthie, on the TAC, is that the camera is looking up their noses half the time. When you see Ruthie in almost the same costume on "Hey Mr Producer" she looks a trillion times better. The TAC camera angles are absolutely awful.
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The Pirate King
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| lesmisloony wrote: | | The chief problem with Judy or anybody, including Ruthie, on the TAC, is that the camera is looking up their noses half the time. When you see Ruthie in almost the same costume on "Hey Mr Producer" she looks a trillion times better. The TAC camera angles are absolutely awful. |
...I had never thought of it that way, but that's very true.
When I saw a publicity photo of Kuhn in October when they announced her return to the revival, I definitely thought that she was 9535098359082350x more attractive than she was in the TAC.
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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So true about the camera angles. Judy is actually quite pretty. Physically, she got totally jipped on the TAC. And now all the comments I see on YouTube and stuff are like, "Cosette's ugly ... WHICH IS WHY MARIUS SHOULD HAVE BEEN WITH EPONINE!!!"
Except for the horrid Fantine wig, I thought Ruthie was beautiful despite the angles.
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mastachen
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I thought Ruthie had a really messy wig and her costume was too big for her in "Hey Mr. Producer!" I think I mentioned before that it seemed like she was already a prostitute and just finished servicing a customer before she sang that song.
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lesmisloony
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I always thought Judy and Ruthie were very... nostrily.
Would you believe I once saw a serious(ly bad) fic in which Eponine was bitching about Cosette because she had a big nose?
In the Book section?
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curlyhairedsoprano91
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You're kidding.
Please send me the link to that fic?
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Kragey
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| lesmisloony wrote: | Would you believe I once saw a serious(ly bad) fic in which Eponine was bitching about Cosette because she had a big nose?
In the Book section? |
I take it you found that at the Pit of Voles.
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lesmisloony
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Kragey:
soprano: I looked for it, but I couldn't find it. Maybe the kid got a clue and took it down...
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