Labrie
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What do you think about LesMis in different languages?Im from spain and i really hate to watch translated musicals...its irritates me so bad. As i state in one of the options of the poll it totally ruins the musicality harmony that the lyric writer creates and besides its unavoidable to mislead the conceptual message of the play.
To translate is to kill..."Tradutore traditore"; but oh well this is a chronic cultural problem we have in spain -and i guess some other places of the world- for ages where we translate everything!! No respect at all for the author though if they allow it...-then do not complain if people dont take seriously some plays as WWRY, its just to lame to translate hard rock classics in spanish- Maybe I�m to radical in this subject but to listen LesMis in castellano causes me a very big unpleasent pain on my belly with an unstopable feeling to vomit.... 
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The Very Angry Woman
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For what it's worth, I don't believe they use the original Spanish translation in any Spanish-language countries anymore.
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Orestes Fasting
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The original Les Mis was in French. Do you think it would have ever become well known if it hadn't been "ruined" by translating it into English?
Personally, I find the English lyrics mediocre and think it sounds a lot better in French, but that depends entirely on the quality of the translation. English Les Mis is okay, German Les Mis is awful, French re-translation of Les Mis is excellent. I almost like the German lyrics for Phantom of the Opera better than the English ones.
But I think translation is especially important in the case of Les Mis, because the story it's trying to tell is so universal that it'd be a shame to be snotty about keeping it in one language. Let's hear the people sing, dag nammit, in whatever language is most natural to them.
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Labrie
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| Orestes Fasting wrote: | The original Les Mis was in French. Do you think it would have ever become well known if it hadn't been "ruined" by translating it into English?
Personally, I find the English lyrics mediocre and think it sounds a lot better in French, but that depends entirely on the quality of the translation. English Les Mis is okay, German Les Mis is awful, French re-translation of Les Mis is excellent. I almost like the German lyrics for Phantom of the Opera better than the English ones.
But I think translation is especially important in the case of Les Mis, because the story it's trying to tell is so universal that it'd be a shame to be snotty about keeping it in one language. Let's hear the people sing, dag nammit, in whatever language is most natural to them. |
Maybe LesMis wasnt a good example cos as you mentioned the original was written in french. Also is important to spread those universal messages that LesMis talks about as far as possible...and no doubt about it: the easiest way is the "tradutore traditori". But my main concern about this is issue is the way translators are capable or not to to use the right words to make the songs sound bright and with the rythm needed. For instance: "One more day" sounds faboulous to me and fits perfectlly well in the song rythm but the castellano translation: "Un dia mas"...well it completely breaks the harmony and rythm of the song....Well just my opinion.
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Pshhness
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Orestes Fasting, I totally agree with you, but I'd just like to point out that rewriting had also been done when Les Mis was turned into English
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Mademoiselle Lanoire
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It depends. Some of them good, some are bad, some are a mixed bag. My Japanese isn't all that great yet, but I can still tell that it's ungrammatical at points. And you're right about the Spanish version... *shudders*
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Hans
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Not translating musicals doesn't make sense. What if other sorts of plays weren't translated? All the world would have to enjoy Ibsen in Norwegian 
How good it is totally depends on the translation. The Norwegian My Fair Lady enjoys the reputation of being better than the original.
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Labrie
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| Dvarg wrote: | Not translating musicals doesn't make sense. What if other sorts of plays weren't translated? All the world would have to enjoy Ibsen in Norwegian
How good it is totally depends on the translation. The Norwegian My Fair Lady enjoys the reputation of being better than the original. |
mmm that means that the original author is been surpassed by a translator or should i say translator/adaptator/creator...It must take some quite imagination to adapt "My fair lady" when its, among other matters, about english slang and bad english pronunciation....Sure it should be a good translation/adaptation of the original but man things are changed to much to make the musical understandable in a completely different culture and language. I would stick with the original creation ALWAYS......Just my way of thinking.
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Hans
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| Labrie wrote: | It must take some quite imagination to adapt "My fair lady" when its, among other matters, about english slang and bad english pronunciation....
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Yup - it is brilliant. Not only are the rhyme scheme recreated to the smallest detail, Andre Bjerke (who did the translation) recreated exactly the same sorts of pronounciation problems for Eliza to struggle with in authentic Norwegian slang versus proper speaking.
The flame thing Eliza speaks into while reciting Hartford, Hereford, Hampshire for example is intact and she can also use the Norwegian equivalent poem to "converse" with at the Ascot race.
It's flawless.
| Labrie wrote: |
I would stick with the original creation ALWAYS...
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But why? I know many translations aren't good, but I've given an example that proves it isn't impossible. I've even read awesome translations of intricate Sondheim songs (though I agree some of those probably are impossible to translate).
If musicals weren't translated, only people knowing their original language would be able to appreciate them. Not all people speak English fluently. Other genres, like poems, books and "straight" plays are translated - what makes musicals different?
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Labrie
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| Dvarg wrote: | | Labrie wrote: | It must take some quite imagination to adapt "My fair lady" when its, among other matters, about english slang and bad english pronunciation....
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Yup - it is brilliant. Not only are the rhyme scheme recreated to the smallest detail, Andre Bjerke (who did the translation) recreated exactly the same sorts of pronounciation problems for Eliza to struggle with in authentic Norwegian slang versus proper speaking.
The flame thing Eliza speaks into while reciting Hartford, Hereford, Hampshire for example is intact and she can also use the Norwegian equivalent poem to "converse" with at the Ascot race.
It's flawless.
| Labrie wrote: |
I would stick with the original creation ALWAYS...
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But why? I know many translations aren't good, but I've given an example that proves it isn't impossible. I've even read awesome translations of intricate Sondheim songs (though I agree some of those probably are impossible to translate).
If musicals weren't translated, only people knowing their original language would be able to appreciate them. Not all people speak English fluently. Other genres, like poems, books and "straight" plays are translated - what makes musicals different? |
Ok Dwarg i see your point of view and i give up hahahaa, you just have to see the result of my poll...I was very succesful. Though i will keep on watching movies in the original version, reading shakespeare in english -if that�s the case- Cervantes in castellano, and LesMis in english -haha though i shoulded do it in french, man nobody is perfect!!- But never ever will listen songs from my fauvorite band Queen in spanish...WHAT A SACRILIGE!!! How they dare to translate we will rock you!!! In spanish is extremely funny ridiculous; though i understand that no Queen fans dont give a damn..Not my case.
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Hans
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| Labrie wrote: | | Though i will keep on watching movies in the original version [...] But never ever will listen songs from my fauvorite band Queen in spanish...WHAT A SACRILIGE!!! |
Ah, but here you bring up quite different things. Are you talking about dubbing movies? Because that is obviously nothing like translating a musical that is performed live.
Translating pop music that is associated with and performed by one particular band is also unsimilar to translating a musical. The musical is a dramaturgic genre much more than a music genre, compared to general pop music.
I didn't see this as a contest to win
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Moci
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| Dvarg wrote: |
But why? I know many translations aren't good, but I've given an example that proves it isn't impossible. I've even read awesome translations of intricate Sondheim songs (though I agree some of those probably are impossible to translate). |
You don't have a foreign translation of 'A Little Priest' do you? I'd love to see how that'd work out.
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Hans
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| Moci wrote: | | You don't have a foreign translation of 'A Little Priest' do you? I'd love to see how that'd work out. |
I don't think I have a copy of it, but I've read the one they used in the Norwegian production several years ago. It was surprisingly good. It was naturally not on par with the original, but not embarassing either. A lot of the original puns are based on idioms that work in Norwegian, too. And Norwegian is a very little plastic language.
I actually enjoy foreign translations of musicals by themselves. It's interresting to see how the translator finds solutions to presumably unsolvable problems. A really good translation has a value in itself.
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Bex
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i love the sound of 'on my own' in french. it sounds more mournful some how...
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Lazarus (Adam G)
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You can't hate a non-English show and love Les Miz at the same time (as someone already mentioned, Les Miz was originally done in French!).
Also, there are so many different versions in diffrent languges. You're really limiting your selection if you hate anything other than English Les Miz.
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Fantine
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I quite like the German Les Mis and I absolutely LOVE the Dutch Mamma Mia which I think is far better than the English version.
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