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Musicals.Net Forums -> Les Miserables

marlalp	UKDeer42 wrote: Vanessa20 wrote: "Eponine is the star. She's the tragic heroine. Without her it would just be another boring story about 'redemption.' She's the golden thread that ties the whole story together." Sure. Of course. A young woman who has been spoilt and pampered through her whole childhood while watching her adopted sister being neglected and abused and only recently has fallen upon hard times is a true heroine. Her angst and anger about the fact that the love of his life, a naive and carefree young man who she hopelessly loves even though he obviously doesn't care that much and most women would have given up on by now, has fallen in love with her abused adopted sister who she tormented throughout her childhood before being rescued, are more important than - say - a group of students fighting for social responsibility. Or the plight of a man condemned by the law for a small, selfless crime and still running away from it though he is a decent man now and even the confusion and misery of a man who has gone through his life worshipping to the law as his only way of getting out of the misery he was born into only to find everything he thought he knew turns out to be wrong when a man he has long hated shows him mercy. No, those concepts are miniscule compared to the woes of Eppy's love life. And this is coming from an Eppie bobber o.o No offense to the writers intended or to the character, but it is TOO far to say she is the heroine of the story or makes it worthwhile o.o And I'm feeling a bit stressed today so that's why I'm ranting ^^; Well said. And I like Eponine too, in the book and (usually) in the musical, but no, she is not the heroine of the story in any sense of the word. I'd sooner give that title to either Cosette or Fantine, who have much more impact on the story.
Orestes Fasting	Not to mention that while Eponine (talking about book!Eponine here) doesn't have enough of a character arc to be considered a tragic heroine, what little development she does get hinges around--dingdingding--redemption. For the most part she's no more than a walking illustration of the physical and moral ravages of adolescent poverty. Her desperate love for Marius, depending on how you interpret it, could be one more aspect of that: the poor kid hardly knows right from wrong, and here she is with an all-consuming passion that gets twisted into weird, inconsistent, desperate actions. If you want to give her a character arc, you can say that her final decision to give the letter to Marius shows that her love finally redeemed her from the degradation and immorality that stunted her youth. If you don't, you can say she died as she lived: a lost soul drowning in an ocean of misery and trying to claw her way to the surface without knowing which way was up. Either way, she's not really a tragic heroine in the usual sense of the term. Anyway. If Eponine does have a story, it's yet another boring story about redemption.
UKDeer42	Yeah that's a much better way of describing her character. I really must read the book - it'll take me forever to do it (took me 3 months to read the 800 page Perdido Street Station by China Meville, currently the longest fiction novel I've read) but I'll certainly have a good try - and I will NOT compromise with the 300 page synopsis - if you're going to read something read the original thing. But yeah she does have an interesting character and I always felt strong sympathy towards her (mainly through my own experiences of love - I see her love toward Marius as the kind based on trust and friendship and where you would do anything for the other person even though they wouldn't return your devotion rather than just "wuv at first sight") but it frankly insults me to say that she's the only thing that keeps the whole show together. In my personal opinion they should've devoted a lot more time to developing the characters of the other students and of the events of the battle and the people's suffering rather than on the Marius/Cossette/Fantine love triangle. Orestes Fasting wrote: Anyway. If Eponine does have a story, it's yet another boring story about redemption. hehe that's very true [EDIT] sorry for triple posting - my internet connection is really bad. Honestly, I live a few miles from a big town yet I can get a better connection in a remote French village. Seriously. And sorry for all the edits - the formatting keeps on messing up on me ><; technology really hates me today
Damask and Dark	Mademoiselle Lanoire wrote: Vanessa20 wrote: Lucie in "A Tale of Two Cities." That's who Dickens used the phrase "golden thread" referring to. Got it. I haven't read that one in a while. I read it for sophomore English and really liked it. I found a cheap copy at Barnes & Noble and have always intended to reread it, but haven't gotten around to it yet... along with all the other books I have yet to read... *sigh* Anyway, when we read Othello for a humanities class I was in, we studied Aristotle's definition of a tragic hero. I realize there are other ways to define it, but this is one of the more famous ones at least, and I think most of it makes sense (except point one, maybe... I don't know if it really matters to me or not if the hero is very important in society). Anyway, it can basically be broken down into four points: 1) The hero must be important, noble, or well-situated/highly regarded in society. 2) The hero must have a basically good nature. 3) The hero must have a fatal flaw. E.g., hubris (excessive pride), overlooking a divine warning, etc. 4) When the hero fails, self-destructs, dies, etc., the audience should experience a catharsis or release of some sort. For example, with Othello: 1) He is a general/war hero and a favorite of the government. 2) He is basically good. 3) His flaw is excessive jealousy regarding Desdemona, which Iago brings out by exploiting Othello's trust in him. 4) When Othello dies, the audience feels sad, but there is also a feeling of catharsis or relief along with his death. Now, to Les Mis... Eponine: 1) not really 2) I guess in the musical you could argue for her being good, although you could also interpret most of her actions as being self-serving or in protection of Marius. 3) obsessive love... although this is more portrayed as a misfortune for her character rather than a negative trait in general 4) I don't know if her death really brings about a catharsis. Sadness, yes. Relief that love triangle angst is over and Marius shows her a scrap of affection, yes. But I don't think you feel the same sort of emotions that you do when tragic characters like Othello or Hamlet die. If to anyone in Les Mis, the award of tragic hero/heroine would most likely go to... Javert: 1) high standing in society as policeman/parole officer 2) I think Javert has a basically good nature, which is flawed by... 3) lack of mercy/overly strict adherence to the law regardless of individual circumstance or personality, unwillingness to believe person can redeem self 4) When Javert dies, there is a definite catharsis. You feel as though it was sort of inevitable or justified. My humanities teacher would be so proud of me right now.
Eppie-Sue	How does Jean Valjean not fit into those points? And is it just me, or did anyone else never get the feeling of an actual "love triangle" being shown with Cosette/Marius/Eponine in the book? Eponine's character had no impact on my perception of Marius' and Cosette's relationship at all, actually.
Orestes Fasting	Well, you could go down the checklist marking off ways in which Jean Valjean doesn't fit the archetype of a tragic hero, or you could look at it this way: the story of a tragic hero is the story of a fall from grace. For that, you need an initial state of grace (hence the requirement of nobility, power, respect, etc), a tragic flaw that will bring it all crashing down, and an escalating series of events where the character's flaw digs him deeper and deeper into the hole. I'm not seeing any of these for Valjean. His status in the world waxes and wanes (peasant, convict, mayor, convent gardener, bourgeois), but not according to any flaws he might have. IMO Valjean better fits the archetype of a steadfast hero: one whose convictions are continually put to the trial, who constantly has to make difficult decisions about staying true to his beliefs/morals/purpose, but who does eventually triumph.
lovesinging	Orestes Fasting wrote: Well, you could go down the checklist marking off ways in which Jean Valjean doesn't fit the archetype of a tragic hero, or you could look at it this way: the story of a tragic hero is the story of a fall from grace. For that, you need an initial state of grace (hence the requirement of nobility, power, respect, etc), a tragic flaw that will bring it all crashing down, and an escalating series of events where the character's flaw digs him deeper and deeper into the hole. I'm not seeing any of these for Valjean. His status in the world waxes and wanes (peasant, convict, mayor, convent gardener, bourgeois), but not according to any flaws he might have. IMO Valjean better fits the archetype of a steadfast hero: one whose convictions are continually put to the trial, who constantly has to make difficult decisions about staying true to his beliefs/morals/purpose, but who does eventually triumph. Truth.
Elbow	http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080227132718AA3Dth9 Not entirely sure whether this is the right place to post this but, methinks the people answering this question are a bit special.
MlleTholomy�s	I refrain from typing in anything Mizzy on Yahoo!Answers, because when I do, v. bad things happen.
What you own	MlleTholomy�s wrote: I refrain from typing in anything Mizzy on Yahoo!Answers, because when I do, v. bad things happen. What sort of bad things?
MlleTholomy�s	What you own wrote: MlleTholomy�s wrote: I refrain from typing in anything Mizzy on Yahoo!Answers, because when I do, v. bad things happen. What sort of bad things? There are thousands of questions like the one you posted. My favourite: "Is David Thaxton gay?"
Eppie-Sue	MlleTholomy�s wrote: There are thousands of questions like the one you posted. My favourite: "Is David Thaxton gay?" pretty legendary, that one. Ugh, on Saturday: "This is the musical with the "I have a dream" song, right?" ... no, that would be the Abba musical.
What you own	MlleTholomy�s wrote: What you own wrote: MlleTholomy�s wrote: I refrain from typing in anything Mizzy on Yahoo!Answers, because when I do, v. bad things happen. What sort of bad things? There are thousands of questions like the one you posted. My favourite: "Is David Thaxton gay?" Ahh I see.
miraclemile	What you own wrote: MlleTholomy�s wrote: What you own wrote: MlleTholomy�s wrote: I refrain from typing in anything Mizzy on Yahoo!Answers, because when I do, v. bad things happen. What sort of bad things? There are thousands of questions like the one you posted. My favourite: "Is David Thaxton gay?" Ahh I see. I love how when I first Googled his name to find more examples of his epicness, that was on the first page of results. Obviously a burning question for many people... (Though... I'm currently rather partial to this one. In a 'it makes me want to tear my eyes from my skull and despair' sort of way)
MlleTholomy�s	Marius must've been killed in one of his powder-keg masculinity tricks.
lesmisloony	Friend: Wait, what is Miss Saigon about? Loony: The Vietnam war. Actually, the same guys who wrote Miss Saigon wrote Les Mis. Friend: Victor Hugo?
Eppie-Sue	about the 1998 movie. Quote: I can't believe...I really can't believe they left out Eponine! She's a really, REALLY key role in the book! Like, majorly! Most of the things that happen at the barricade have something to do with her! She's one of the reasons it's called LES MISERABLES--the MISERABLE ONES. O.O
Paula74	Eppie-Sue wrote: about the 1998 movie. Quote: I can't believe...I really can't believe they left out Eponine! She's a really, REALLY key role in the book! Like, majorly! Most of the things that happen at the barricade have something to do with her! She's one of the reasons it's called LES MISERABLES--the MISERABLE ONES. O.O Now that made me laugh and cry at the same time.
MlleTholomy�s	Eppie-Sue wrote: about the 1998 movie. Quote: I can't believe...I really can't believe they left out Eponine! She's a really, REALLY key role in the book! Like, majorly! Most of the things that happen at the barricade have something to do with her! She's one of the reasons it's called LES MISERABLES--the MISERABLE ONES. O.O Eponine: Personification for all life's woes since 1862.
Paula74	Saw this text in an ad on Facebook: Les Miserables is a classic masterpiece that has been recently reinvigorated, get your copy of the original cast recording now! Recently reinvigorated? As in the revival with orchestrations that reminded me of a cheap music box?
Vanessa20	I don't think anyone's cited this one yet (or at least I hope no one has). It's from Youtube, in response to Part 6 of the Anthony Perkins movie: Quote: Les Mis' was originally a Russian novel that was translated to English.
HannahM	I've been lurking on the Les Miserables forum here for a while but after some of the things I've heard today I knew I'd have to share it with people who understand. On seeing me re-reading my copy of the Brick, one of my best friends said "Is that based on that Clare Danes movie?". I took a lot of deep breaths and tried to subdue the outrage before correcting her and playing her some of the TAC on my ipod (she recognized a couple of the songs). I went on to tell her that I had booked BB tickets to the show for her, myself and another friend for my eighteenth early next year. To this she requested that we go see Wicked instead...
eliasatsalome	1. my best friend says it as le mis-reh-lab 2. ive heard someone say enjies' name as en-hol-ras. goodness gracious. 3. i used to say it a en-JOL-RASSSSSSSSSS (i was six! forgive me!)
Eppie-Sue	HannahM wrote: On seeing me re-reading my copy of the Brick, one of my best friends said "Is that based on that Clare Danes movie?". I took a lot of deep breaths and tried to subdue the outrage before correcting her and playing her some of the TAC on my ipod (she recognized a couple of the songs). I went on to tell her that I had booked BB tickets to the show for her, myself and another friend for my eighteenth early next year. To this she requested that we go see Wicked instead... Oh God for shame. I feel your pain! But I'm sure her attitude will change after seeing it live, so that's something to look forward to.
the_bleeding_layabout	I saw this on a video of ALFOR on YouTube: Quote: Amazing, heart renching, I cry every time. I actually kinda like Marius' take on the love because it shows that he's finally realizing what he could have had in Eponine, what she wanted to give him the whole time, but now it's to late, that's why it's so sad. It is a bit unussually for it to be interpreted so romantically but I think it's a nice affect. Just... no.
Orestes Fasting	the_bleeding_layabout wrote: I saw this on a video of ALFOR on YouTube: Quote: Amazing, heart renching, I cry every time. I actually kinda like Marius' take on the love because it shows that he's finally realizing what he could have had in Eponine, what she wanted to give him the whole time, but now it's to late, that's why it's so sad. It is a bit unussually for it to be interpreted so romantically but I think it's a nice affect. Just... no. I'm not really seeing the fail here. It's a valid interpretation of the text of the musical, even if it's unpopular in the fandom because it doesn't jibe terribly well with the book. It's not even a particularly egregious example of Eppie-bopperism. The poster acknowledged that a straight-up romantic interpretation was unusual and didn't go on about how Marius should've loved Eponine all along instead of running off with that bitch Cosette.
lesmisloony	As much as I abso-bleeding-lutely hate that interpretation of the relationship, I gotta say I specifically remember describing it that way to someone when I was eleven years old.
the_bleeding_layabout	lesmisloony wrote: As much as I abso-bleeding-lutely hate that interpretation of the relationship, I gotta say I specifically remember describing it that way to someone when I was eleven years old. Lol, don't worry, when I first started liking Les Mis, I remember telling someone that Eponine was my favourite character cos I could "totally relate to her"
the_bleeding_layabout	Sorry for the double post... Orestes Fasting wrote: the_bleeding_layabout wrote: I saw this on a video of ALFOR on YouTube: Quote: Amazing, heart renching, I cry every time. I actually kinda like Marius' take on the love because it shows that he's finally realizing what he could have had in Eponine, what she wanted to give him the whole time, but now it's to late, that's why it's so sad. It is a bit unussually for it to be interpreted so romantically but I think it's a nice affect. Just... no. I'm not really seeing the fail here. It's a valid interpretation of the text of the musical, even if it's unpopular in the fandom because it doesn't jibe terribly well with the book. It's not even a particularly egregious example of Eppie-bopperism. The poster acknowledged that a straight-up romantic interpretation was unusual and didn't go on about how Marius should've loved Eponine all along instead of running off with that bitch Cosette. I see what you are saying but it really irritates me when this is the impression quite a few people get after seeing Les Mis.
Ricey	the_bleeding_layabout wrote: Sorry for the double post... Orestes Fasting wrote: the_bleeding_layabout wrote: I saw this on a video of ALFOR on YouTube: Quote: Amazing, heart renching, I cry every time. I actually kinda like Marius' take on the love because it shows that he's finally realizing what he could have had in Eponine, what she wanted to give him the whole time, but now it's to late, that's why it's so sad. It is a bit unussually for it to be interpreted so romantically but I think it's a nice affect. Just... no. I'm not really seeing the fail here. It's a valid interpretation of the text of the musical, even if it's unpopular in the fandom because it doesn't jibe terribly well with the book. It's not even a particularly egregious example of Eppie-bopperism. The poster acknowledged that a straight-up romantic interpretation was unusual and didn't go on about how Marius should've loved Eponine all along instead of running off with that bitch Cosette. I see what you are saying but it really irritates me when this is the impression quite a few people get after seeing Les Mis. Thats the impression my friend got. Now she is obsessed with the fact Marius should have been with Eponine. Its not that she doesnt like Cosette, she just likes Eponine more. And it really annoys me when she continues to go on about how sad it was that Eponine died and that Marius should have gone with her insted of Cosette because maybe Cosette could have been happy with someone else. But I suppose thats just some peoples impression. Even if I have no idea how they got it.
Orestes Fasting	Quote: But I suppose thats just some peoples impression. Even if I have no idea how they got it. Because it's right there in the show. It's not epic fail to come away with the impression that Marius would've been better off with Eponine, when grown!Cosette is pretty much a walk-on role and Eponine is portrayed as a selfless heroine and gets a showstopping solo and dies dramatically in Marius's arms. Of course the people who think Eponine is the real main character or who actively bash Cosette or who rag on Marius for having the presumption to fall in love with the 'wrong' girl need to get a grip. But to come away from the show with more sympathy for Eponine than for Cosette isn't some weird psychological defect--it's a flaw of the show, not the people who see it.
jdeng	To keep the show short [so the audience can catch the last trains home, while missing Eponine], the creators cut off some paragraphs in which Cosette questions about her own identity. A very good post on this forum discussed the symmetry of the LM songs. And I think that Cosette should have been given a "Who Am I" solo. The brighter side of Eponine's life, when compared to Cosette�s, is that she always knows who she is.
Alexia Dark	Today at rehearsal, blocking the Finale: Guy Playing Valjean: I die!? (We did One Day More and the Finale first to get them out of the way, so we have only had the script since Friday, but still...)
Orestes Fasting	Alexia Dark wrote: Today at rehearsal, blocking the Finale: Guy Playing Valjean: I die!? (We did One Day More and the Finale first to get them out of the way, so we have only had the script since Friday, but still...) It's based on a Victor Hugo novel; if the majority of the main characters aren't dead by the end, you're doing it wrong.
marlalp	Someone on DeviantArt, trying to explain the story of Marius and �ponine: Quote: Basically, Marius, the student leader of the revolutionaries is an ascot wearing dick head who fails to notice one of his friends affections or him. He's even so tactless as to use her to track down and send love letters to the woman he loves, this, when the poor girl is practically screaming that she loves him. In the end she goes out the barricades to fight the french army when she finally realizes she means nothing to him, and is killed when she takes a bullet to defend him (Through the hand and then through the chest). As she lies dying, he finally shows some emotion. The little creaton. (Anyone notice that a high proportion of the things posted in this thread have to do with �ponine/Marius?)
MlleTholomy�s	Quote: Basically, Marius, the student leader of the revolutionaries is an ascot wearing dick head who fails to notice one of his friends affections or him. He's even so tactless as to use her to track down and send love letters to the woman he loves, this, when the poor girl is practically screaming that she loves him. In the end she goes out the barricades to fight the french army when she finally realizes she means nothing to him, and is killed when she takes a bullet to defend him (Through the hand and then through the chest). As she lies dying, he finally shows some emotion. The little creaton. "Student leader of the revolutionaries" and "ascot wearing dick head" are now my favourite things ever.
Orestes Fasting	Wow, what a plebe. Marius is a cravat wearing dick head, thank you very much. ...otherwise, not seeing the fail in this one either. The facts are accurate enough (except for "student leader of the revolutionaries" wtf), even if the editorial slant is amusing and this person is so obviously working from the musical except for one pathos-adding detail cherry-picked from the book.
Ulkis	The thing is, it happens a lot online but off-line I don't think people are unhappy that Marius and Cosette are together in the end. It's not that they think Marius and Cosette shouldn't be together or that they think even that Marius should end up with Eponine, it's that you just feel bad for Eponine. I think most adults (I don't want to stereotype, but most of the online Eponine girl stuff is coming from younger teenage girls) recognize the fact that Eponine's storyline in the musical would lose all its pathos but most especially *the point* if Marius fell in love with her in the end. On My Own would just be a ridiculous whine fest (and more of one, if that's already your opinion) if it turned out wait, Marius' world WON'T go on turning, oh snap. It's funny though, because if that actually happened you know it would have been decades of "how could Marius get together with the witch whose parents beat up Cosette" and "Cosette is so pretty and has nice dresses" etc., etc. Also, I really believe that Cosette would get more sympathy in the musical if she actually had a nice dress like Quebec's Cosette instead of the black frock. Yes, I am, and also believe people are, that shallow. Who wants to root for the girl in the black nun frock? I'm trying to think of what I thought of Eponine/Cosette/Mariuuuuuus when I was 10, and I don't think I particularly cared who he ended up with. Although I guess I turn into a bit of raging Eponine fangirl when I hear people diss Frances Ruffelle. Love that lady.
jdeng	Ulkis wrote: ... Also, I really believe that Cosette would get more sympathy in the musical if she actually had a nice dress like Quebec's Cosette instead of the black frock. Yes, I am, and also believe people are, that shallow. Who wants to root for the girl in the black nun frock? ... Many people fancy Soeur Simplice in a real black nun frock, and cannot understand why Valjean does not fall in love with her [well, in the 2000 French TV mini-series].
Ulkis	Yeah, but Soeur Simplice is drop-dead gorgeous. Most stage Cosettes aren't.
lesmisloony	My most recent reread of the Brick was put on hold due to a return to college and I left off just as Fantine was being arrested. Tell me, is there any Book-based reason for Simplice to be hot? I don't seem to remember one... I thought I remember her description being similar to Mlle Baptistine...
Shub-Niggurath	I could never understand the Hot Simplice syndrome. In almost every adaptation. It's a mystery.
Lauraa	A conversation between two people sat behind me yesterday: (when the stage turns and Enjolras is hanging there upside down covered in blood) Stupid person: FFS why is he just laying there, why doesn't he fight with them? Her friend: He's dead. Stupid person: REALLY!! Ohhhh...
Eppie-Sue	Lauraa wrote: A conversation between two people sat behind me yesterday: (when the stage turns and Enjolras is hanging there upside down covered in blood) Stupid person: FFS why is he just laying there, why doesn't he fight with them? Her friend: He's dead. Stupid person: REALLY!! Ohhhh... O.O I love this so much, I might even forgive them for talking at that moment. Even better than that boy behind me going: "But they're still breathing" about the dead students and his mum shutting him up with: "No they're not." xDD
Lauraa	Eppie-Sue wrote: Lauraa wrote: A conversation between two people sat behind me yesterday: (when the stage turns and Enjolras is hanging there upside down covered in blood) Stupid person: FFS why is he just laying there, why doesn't he fight with them? Her friend: He's dead. Stupid person: REALLY!! Ohhhh... O.O I love this so much, I might even forgive them for talking at that moment. Even better than that boy behind me going: "But they're still breathing" about the dead students and his mum shutting him up with: "No they're not." xDD Lol it did kind of ruin the moment as they were talking quite loudly but it made me laugh so much. Seriously, what did she think he was doing there?
l'ivrogne transfigur�	Lauraa wrote: A conversation between two people sat behind me yesterday: (when the stage turns and Enjolras is hanging there upside down covered in blood) Stupid person: FFS why is he just laying there, why doesn't he fight with them? Her friend: He's dead. Stupid person: REALLY!! Ohhhh... Hahahahahaha *If I lie still, maybe they'll think I'm really dead and I won't die* - because that's SO Enjolraic!
Ricey	Lauraa wrote: Eppie-Sue wrote: Lauraa wrote: A conversation between two people sat behind me yesterday: (when the stage turns and Enjolras is hanging there upside down covered in blood) Stupid person: FFS why is he just laying there, why doesn't he fight with them? Her friend: He's dead. Stupid person: REALLY!! Ohhhh... O.O I love this so much, I might even forgive them for talking at that moment. Even better than that boy behind me going: "But they're still breathing" about the dead students and his mum shutting him up with: "No they're not." xDD Lol it did kind of ruin the moment as they were talking quite loudly but it made me laugh so much. Seriously, what did she think he was doing there? Lol. She must have thought that he had decided to take a quick nap. It reminds me of when someone ruined the moment by crying "OH MY GOD ITS SO SAD!!!" followed by rather loud laughing during a really quiet bit in ALFOR. That ruined the rather sad moment.
aquirkofmatter	Ricey wrote: It reminds me of when someone ruined the moment by crying "OH MY GOD ITS SO SAD!!!" followed by rather loud laughing during a really quiet bit in ALFOR. That ruined the rather sad moment. That was like the other night - when Gavroche has climbed over the barricade and the first shot goes off, some guy about half way back in the stalls went "SH!T!" and then half of the stalls started laughing. It was completely inappropriate for the poor kid who then had to die, but he handled it well!
Elbow	Not Les Mis related, but the same kind of thing. I went to see Blood Brothers on Wednesday. In the most dramatic and sad and emotionally poignant bit at the end, someone blew their nose REALLY loudly in an almost comedic kind of way, it sounded a bit like a fart, not only did this just ruin the moment totally, but me and a few people around me, got the giggles really quite badly. Total moment ruiner.
KatyRoseLand	At David Shannon's etc last, the ladies in front of me nudged each other and whispered all through IDAD, and during the interval, said "I don't understand, why isn't Susan Boyle in it? She's much better than this one".
Eppie-Sue	Okay, this isn't really silly, but I had to post it somewhere. I chatted with two very nice elderly people who had seen the show ages ago, and in the interval I asked them what they thought of the principals (they looved Nancy) and I just went through all the names, and then I went: "So. Enjolras?" and, already expecting ??? faces, I went on: "The student leader...?" Reaction: "Oh the one that stood on the table and lifted the gun??" ... xD Epic character description. (They loved him. Of course they did.)
Elbow	Some really loud Aussies were sat behind me today. "So is Les Miserables actually French?" "Well, it's set in France" "But it's written by Victor Hugo I thought?" "Oh it must be English then, it's been translated into French though." "What about the musical?" "Oh the musical's English but it's been translated into French too." Ehhh??
MlleImparfait	The other day when I was watching the TAC DVD with my mom, right after ALFOR she goes "Ugh, that bastard!" So....my mother is an Eppybopper. Also, I was chatting online with one of my guy friends one night when I was taking a "Which Les Mis Character Are You?" quiz out of extreme boredom. I made him take the quiz, too. He's seen LM once, but a long time ago. Here is the conversation that occured: Friend: Who the heck is enjolras? Me: Dude. He's the one who leads the revolution. He's like the most charismatic person ever. Friend: Oh! Awesome!!! Woot! Lol. That fit me? Me: I think so. Definitely better than mine fit me. Friend: Haha *hug* I sorry Me: It's all good. At least everyone loves Gavroche. Everyone loves Enjolras, too. He's one of the most lusted after characters. Friend: Awesome! Lol this is good. Me (feeling very evil at this moment): Except...he stayed chaste. His only love was France. Friend: Stupid m****r f****r! Main difference between us. Me: Yes. Yes, indeed. But he does have one of the best songs in the show. Friend: Idr lol. Haven't seen it in a while. Me: It's all good. Oh, Enjolras is often described as Apollo. Friend: Sun god? Awesome! Lol I ain't no apollo. Yeeeeah. Oh, and this is my first post! Although I've been lurking for a while now...
Eppie-Sue	He is not often described as Apollo.
l'ivrogne transfigur�	Eppie-Sue wrote: He is not often described as Apollo. Calling him Apollo is one of the major misconceptions of fanfiction writers, who want to come up with as many different variations on the theme of Enjolras as possible, to make their stories more 'interesting'. He is never called Apollo directly in the book, and descriptions of him also rarely include Apollo, although he is compared to many other figures: Gracchus, Orestes etc. I think it only mentions once, when he dies, that he was heard referred to as Apollo. Sorry for lecture! - HI
Eppie-Sue	l'ivrogne transfigur� wrote: He is never called Apollo directly in the book, and descriptions of him also rarely include Apollo, although he is compared to many other figures: Gracchus, Orestes etc. Antinous. Wild.
Ricey	MlleImparfait wrote: So....my mother is an Eppybopper. Im surrounded by Eppyboppers. The only problem is most of them decidied to call eponine "Eponini." It makes her sound like a bread roll.
MlleImparfait	l'ivrogne transfigur� wrote: Eppie-Sue wrote: He is not often described as Apollo. Calling him Apollo is one of the major misconceptions of fanfiction writers, who want to come up with as many different variations on the theme of Enjolras as possible, to make their stories more 'interesting'. He is never called Apollo directly in the book, and descriptions of him also rarely include Apollo, although he is compared to many other figures: Gracchus, Orestes etc. I think it only mentions once, when he dies, that he was heard referred to as Apollo. Sorry for lecture! - HI Well, then, I'm sorry for saying that he was often called Apollo. I haven't finished the Brick yet. I have, however, read too much bad fanfiction about Enjy.
Eppie-Sue	Heeh, quite clearly. But enjoy the Brick then!
Lauraa	^ Eppie-Sue, can I just say that your new picture is the most amazing thing ever Hehe that's blatantly why Jon Robyns auditioned... everyone wants to wear The Vest!
l'ivrogne transfigur�	Lauraa wrote: ^ Eppie-Sue, can I just say that your new picture is the most amazing thing ever Hehe that's blatantly why Jon Robyns auditioned... everyone wants to wear The Vest! I was just working out where best to say exactly the same thing!! "Seriously, get your own Vest of Doom"
Ricey	l'ivrogne transfigur� wrote: Lauraa wrote: ^ Eppie-Sue, can I just say that your new picture is the most amazing thing ever Hehe that's blatantly why Jon Robyns auditioned... everyone wants to wear The Vest! I was just working out where best to say exactly the same thing!! "Seriously, get your own Vest of Doom" WANT. VEST. But it is true... who wouldn't want the vest?
Lauraa	Ricey wrote: l'ivrogne transfigur� wrote: Lauraa wrote: ^ Eppie-Sue, can I just say that your new picture is the most amazing thing ever Hehe that's blatantly why Jon Robyns auditioned... everyone wants to wear The Vest! I was just working out where best to say exactly the same thing!! "Seriously, get your own Vest of Doom" WANT. VEST. But it is true... who wouldn't want the vest? "Ooooooh shiny... Precious... WANT. Vest" "Seriously, get your own Vest of Doom" I was laughing so much at that. And Ricey, I know I do
Fiwen9430	Lauraa wrote: Ricey wrote: l'ivrogne transfigur� wrote: Lauraa wrote: ^ Eppie-Sue, can I just say that your new picture is the most amazing thing ever Hehe that's blatantly why Jon Robyns auditioned... everyone wants to wear The Vest! I was just working out where best to say exactly the same thing!! "Seriously, get your own Vest of Doom" WANT. VEST. But it is true... who wouldn't want the vest? "Ooooooh shiny... Precious... WANT. Vest" "Seriously, get your own Vest of Doom" I was laughing so much at that. And Ricey, I know I do I really wanted to comment on this in the Cast Change Thread when I first saw it but thought it was a little off topic! That icon is probably the funniest thing I have seen all week! And so true!
Madeleine	Fiwen9430 wrote: I really wanted to comment on this in the Cast Change Thread when I first saw it but thought it was a little off topic! Yeah, same! I've been sitting here watching it over and over again, and giggling to myself. It's a welcome distraction from the uni reading I'm meant to be doing. They should sell replica Vests of Doom at the Queen's. I think there would be quite a lot of people desperate to buy one. (half of this forum for a start...)
Ricey	Madeleine wrote: Fiwen9430 wrote: I really wanted to comment on this in the Cast Change Thread when I first saw it but thought it was a little off topic! Yeah, same! I've been sitting here watching it over and over again, and giggling to myself. It's a welcome distraction from the uni reading I'm meant to be doing. They should sell replica Vests of Doom at the Queen's. I think there would be quite a lot of people desperate to buy one. (half of this forum for a start...) they really should sell vests of doom!!!! It could make them a fortune!!!! I sat there watching that icon for ages and when I went to talk to someone on another site all I could type was THE VEST OF DOOM. They were like "You've lost it again". But they're quite used to my moments of madness. Theres been many times where i've just randomly started singing Les Mis. A few of my friends join in but most just give me a blank stare.
HannahM	Fiwen9430 wrote: I really wanted to comment on this in the Cast Change Thread when I first saw it but thought it was a little off topic! Off topic? On the Cast Change thread? Now that would just be unacceptable
HannahM	Fiwen9430 wrote: I really wanted to comment on this in the Cast Change Thread when I first saw it but thought it was a little off topic! Off topic? On the Cast Change thread? Now that would just be unacceptable
Madeleine	HannahM wrote: Fiwen9430 wrote: I really wanted to comment on this in the Cast Change Thread when I first saw it but thought it was a little off topic! Off topic? On the Cast Change thread? Now that would just be unacceptable Since we've already hijacked this thread to fangirl Eppie's icon, now seems a good time to tell you how much I love your 'Exit, persued by Javert' signature. It makes me smile everytime I see it.
Eppie-Sue	Hahahah, you guys are made of awesome (and have turned this into quite an off-topic conversation ) - thanks a lot. xD Everyone knows Jon is just in it for The Vest. And I asked him about it after the cabaret he did and, apparently, it's not even sure if he gets to wear it (I told him he had to. And he went: "Oh, JUST The Vest, that might be an idea...!" No. Comment.) But ah! The tour without The Vest? Jonjolras without The Vest? Wouldn't that just be sad?! Poor Jon. And, you know, they have quite a few vests. David went "A DOZEN. No, really, they have like TEN of them!" (meaning: there might be five or so )... and we gushed about how pretty and shiny it is. And I love it very much (and so does David. And Mark agreed that it was "the best part about the performance".) So, yes. Many Vestfans.
Lauraa	Ricey wrote: I sat there watching that icon for ages and when I went to talk to someone on another site all I could type was THE VEST OF DOOM. They were like "You've lost it again". But they're quite used to my moments of madness. Theres been many times where i've just randomly started singing Les Mis. A few of my friends join in but most just give me a blank stare. Haha same, I tried to explain The Jump and The Hug and my friends just rolled their eyes and said that I am obsessed... Lol I think they would think I was even weirder if I started talking about "THE VEST OF DOOM"!
HannahM	Madeleine wrote: HannahM wrote: Fiwen9430 wrote: I really wanted to comment on this in the Cast Change Thread when I first saw it but thought it was a little off topic! Off topic? On the Cast Change thread? Now that would just be unacceptable Since we've already hijacked this thread to fangirl Eppie's icon, now seems a good time to tell you how much I love your 'Exit, persued by Javert' signature. It makes me smile everytime I see it. Ah thanks! They have a white waistcoat in Primark that vaguely resembles THE VEST OF DOOM. It makes me smile every time I see it. (Apologies for the double post last time, by the way)
Eppie-Sue	HannahM wrote: They have a white waistcoat in Primark that vaguely resembles THE VEST OF DOOM.
Madeleine	Eppie-Sue wrote: HannahM wrote: They have a white waistcoat in Primark that vaguely resembles THE VEST OF DOOM. indeed! I think I'll be paying the Oxford Street branch a visit on Saturday in search of this waistcoat!
HannahM	Ehh no pressure! In my Les Mis tinted eyes it looks like The Vest anyway. I wanted to get it and dye it red but after I tried it on and sang LiD my friend informed me that I was crazy enough...
lovesinging	Lauraa wrote: ^ Eppie-Sue, can I just say that your new picture is the most amazing thing ever Hehe that's blatantly why Jon Robyns auditioned... everyone wants to wear The Vest! Agreed. LOVE IT.
Lauraa	Did anyone else just watch X Factor... Dannii Minogue just described this as "Les Mis mixed with The Lion King" (at about 3:15) Eh?!
l'ivrogne transfigur�	The production was Les Mis mixed with Lion King? As in the dancing??? Cos everyone knows there's so many dancers with sticks in Les Mis ...
AzelmaCombeferre9430	This dude on facebook said "I didn't like Enjolras because of his vow of celibacy. Then I found out he had a mistress" This dude was talking about 'Patria'.
Lauraa	AzelmaCombeferre9430 wrote: This dude on facebook said "I didn't like Enjolras because of his vow of celibacy. Then I found out he had a mistress" This dude was talking about 'Patria'. Haha I hate to say it but when I first read the book I got confused and thought that Patria was a girl he was in love with Shameful...
Eppie-Sue	Les Mis�rables Synopsis and Character Descriptions on StageAgent "[...] With the French Revolution ensuing, Cosette falls in love with a student revolutionary, Marius. After a battle, Marius falls unconscious in the sewer of Paris. Before Valjean dies, he is able to save Marius so that Marius and Cosette can be wed." Lovely imagine of Valjean saving Marius from drowning in the sewers. but the best part has got to be the actual character breakdown: We've got the leads... Jean Valjean, Javert, Fantine, Eponine, Marius and Cosette We've got the supporting actors... Young Cosette, Mme Th�nardier, M Th�nardier, Gavroche and then we've got the "cameos". Yes. Enjolras and Bishop. ...
l'ivrogne transfigur�	Eppie-Sue wrote: Les Mis�rables Synopsis and Character Descriptions on StageAgent "[...] With the French Revolution ensuing, Cosette falls in love with a student revolutionary, Marius. After a battle, Marius falls unconscious in the sewer of Paris. Before Valjean dies, he is able to save Marius so that Marius and Cosette can be wed." Lovely imagine of Valjean saving Marius from drowning in the sewers. but the best part has got to be the actual character breakdown: We've got the leads... Jean Valjean, Javert, Fantine, Eponine, Marius and Cosette We've got the supporting actors... Young Cosette, Mme Th�nardier, M Th�nardier, Gavroche and then we've got the "cameos". Yes. Enjolras and Bishop. ... I saw that - Young Cosette, who doesn't even come on for curtain call, has a bigger part than Enjolras??? When I saw that, I was actually really offended on Enjolras' behalf!
mezzo_soprano	Our little Cosette got a really high curtain call. But that was due to her attachment to me, so she got to bow with me.
AzelmaCombeferre9430	"So Marius is a girl, right?" -My friend's older sister when I was explaining Les Mis to them, since were watching Glee and Rachel sang OMO, and I went into another one of my Mis Moments, explaining the forshadowing of this song for the later eposides, even though Rachel shouldn't idenfity with Eponine...blah,blah, blah...I then told her "well, he does look like one"
beyondthebarricade	HAHA when I was watching the show my dad asked me "So Valjean bought Cosette from those two people and he married her?" Another one was "Ohh so Valjean was a traitor and he let Javert go after the students captured him?" Except that he said it in the english way... with the "t".
paperstars	When I last saw the show, when Marius climbs over the gate into Cosette's garden I heard some guy whisper loudly behind me "Why didn't he just walk round it?"
Vanessa20	I've got another one, I think. It's been a while since I've read the barricade scenes in the Brick, and I'm no expert on 1830s weaponry, so maybe someone could answer this for me... the barricade isn't taken down by a single grenade, is it? 'Cause someone on Youtube, in their comments for a TAC clip (obviously thinking of the big gunshot sound that cues the slow-mo deaths - which I thought was symbolic), wrote something like "a grenade is thrown, killing everyone at the barricade."
Lauraa	paperstars wrote: When I last saw the show, when Marius climbs over the gate into Cosette's garden I heard some guy whisper loudly behind me "Why didn't he just walk round it?" When was that, cos my dad said the exact same thing... VERY loudly.
Lein	Lauraa wrote: paperstars wrote: When I last saw the show, when Marius climbs over the gate into Cosette's garden I heard some guy whisper loudly behind me "Why didn't he just walk round it?" When was that, cos my dad said the exact same thing... VERY loudly. Someone always has to think of me when she sees a fence... because I was scared that the fence would fall when my favourite actor as Marius climbed it... I described her how I sat there, and that made an impression
paperstars	Lauraa wrote: paperstars wrote: When I last saw the show, when Marius climbs over the gate into Cosette's garden I heard some guy whisper loudly behind me "Why didn't he just walk round it?" When was that, cos my dad said the exact same thing... VERY loudly. June 22nd in London
Lauraa	paperstars wrote: Lauraa wrote: paperstars wrote: When I last saw the show, when Marius climbs over the gate into Cosette's garden I heard some guy whisper loudly behind me "Why didn't he just walk round it?" When was that, cos my dad said the exact same thing... VERY loudly. June 22nd in London Oh, we went in July - it must be a common thing to say then
stumpy457	*first post! Hey guys!* I had a friend who read 'Javert' aloud as 'YAH-vert' and the pronounced 'cafe' as 'kayf' because it lacked an accent...I went through pronunciation HELL when we read the book in high school because I was the only one who had any knowledge of the show/French language...Eponine became 'Ep-oh-NINE' (as in the number), Thenardier was 'THEN-ah-dee-ar'...oh, Lord...
beyondthebarricade	One more: Me: So you know, Eponine is Thenardier's daughter... Dad: Wait wait wait...Cosette was Eponine's daughter, and... Me: NO. Cosette is Fantine's daughter! She worked in the Thenardier's inn when she was little, in Montfermeil, but they mistreated her and so Valjean rescued her from there as he felt indebted to Fantine and he raised her up. Dad: Oh yes, that's right. Fantine is... Me: HER MOTHER. The one who had to be a prostitute and sell her hair and trinket when she got sacked from Valjean's factory so that she could get money to treat Cosette. Dad (trying to act smart): And you see, the tables turned, so this Cosette became well off and EPONY had to end up singing -starts to hum "Castle on a Cloud" instead of "On My Own". Ugh.
Fiwen9430	So, I was reading some of the ticketmaster reviews, many of which were absolutely hilarious. I had to share this one, which was someone's favourite moment of the show: "Javre singing Reach for the Stars." I now can't get the image of Javert dressed in something glittery and performing a dance routine out of my head!
AzelmaCombeferre9430	"Cosette wasn't really poor. And then Valjean spoiled her." Becuase being forced to work as a slave to a sick innkeeper and then being raised in a convent where she's not allowed to call anything 'hers' and being raised by Valjean who is always teaching her to help others out is soooo spoiled "i like eponines life 4 mine cuz its more adventous" I didn't think eppie-boppers actually wrote like that until I saw all these comments on "In My Life" videos on youtube. Yep, straving, having an abusive fathers who beats you, your sister, your mother, and you dresses your fifteen year old sister in sluttly clothes, and possibly forces you into child prostitution, stealing, being mentally unstable, suffering from unrequited love, and dying on a barricade must be some fun adventure. Yeah, I know I sound like a bitch, but seriously Cosette bashing/Eppie-bopping makes me really angry (I can understand it when people are really new to it, but after that its just stupid)
beyondthebarricade	My dad thought that Javert was Eponine's dad.
neen	Fiwen9430 wrote: So, I was reading some of the ticketmaster reviews, many of which were absolutely hilarious. I had to share this one, which was someone's favourite moment of the show: "Javre singing Reach for the Stars." I now can't get the image of Javert dressed in something glittery and performing a dance routine out of my head! It's funny, but I can't seem to recall that part of the show. [/totally not serious]
Quique	Back when I saw a 3rd national tour performance (Pantages, 1992) my brother and sister tagged along at the last minute and sat in the balcony. I sat 2nd row, orchestra center. I doubt it was the distance but my brother said to me at intermission... "Wow, I loved the scene when they were all fighting at the barricade." I never asked him to elaborate but I've always assumed he thought "Look Down" was the battle!
Inspector Javert	Haha, I love this thread!! Unfortunately, I have zero stories to post, but I can see this being a conversation in the very, very near future... 1: Yeah, that one song I Dreamed A Dream. 2: Oh you mean by Susan Boyle? 1: *facepalm*
MlleImparfait	Inspector Javert wrote: 1: Yeah, that one song I Dreamed A Dream. 2: Oh you mean by Susan Boyle? 1: *facepalm* Already had this conversation. Another to add to the list: People thinking Susan Boyle is the best person ever to sing IDAD and she always will be. That bothers me. A lot.

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